Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

[enaid]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

Two wrongs to not make a right though

There are plenty of documented case where the liverpool pathway basically drugged people up to he eye balls, then removed nourishment until they died. Only the intravention of relatives brought them back from the brink and they survived, some making a full recovery

NHS doctors were put under pressure to cart people off to these hospice centres due to pressures on bed blocking and no suitable care homes had vacancies

Doctors cannot make a decision on who lives and who dies

What i am saying is every minute of life is special, no one has the right to take that away, not even yourself

Yes as I said I did read up on this and there were certainly many pros and cons, but depending on individual cases as you would expect.
Life is very special and as you say no one has the right to take that way, no one, not even yourself.
If your own perception of a life will end or has already ended then the right to remove your existence should be your decision and your right as long as you are of sound mind

[PAWS]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

If one is ‘In extremis’ – and by that I mean on their death bed then I think we all know that the amount of morphine is slowly increased. The patient will eventually drift off into a peaceful sleep. Now technically this is a form of euthanasia but preferable than an agonising battle to the end. It is true that solid food and even liquids are often not given towards the end but this is not an attempt to speed up deterioration. In many cases giving a patient any fluids or food orally can cause severe distress to a system that has already begun to shut down. In fact, many loved ones believing to be acting in the patients best interest will give fluids or food and in two cases that I personally have seen this caused harrowing distress to both the patient and as a consequence the family.
Contemplating suicide when one has not slept for days due to worry or when a person thinks their home, job or indeed loved ones are about to be taken away from them is perfectly understandable. I am not saying it is the correct action but I know when your whole mind and body is screaming with exhaustion it is impossible to see a clear and positive path ahead. A form of temporary loss of reason descends. In this case many things may happen to help you snap out of it.
When you first discover you are terminally ill you are likely to slip into such a state but often this is followed by a period of intense clarity. Many people use this time to ‘put their affairs in order’. Now to knuckle down to writing a will, working on a bucket list or even planning a funeral one needs to have a good grip on reality and be aware of options, legislation and indeed the feelings of friends and family. None of these are rationally considered by someone contemplating suicide in the usual way.
When I was young all the girls would say ‘if I discovered I was pregnant I would kill myself’. When I stood outside a GPs surgery in a small town in Ireland -18, single, skint and pregnant I had two options. A Magdalene convent or suicide. Believe me, in those days that was one very well balanced seesaw. Now I would love to say I was intelligent and without hesitation chose life-for both of us- but it was a very close call. I know I was not of sound mind at that time.
I honestly do not know what choice I would make if I was diagnosed terminally ill. If my OH was diagnosed I would want him alive for a as long as possible and believe I could face anything just to see his face and hold his hand for as many precious minutes as possible but I also agree it would be harrowing to watch him in any sort of distress. If he asked me to help him end it all I would, as I believe it would be his choice and my reasons for not helping him would be entirely selfish in this situation but everyone is different and as I said before we really do not know until we are in that awful place.

[Berniethebolt]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

Judgemental
may I ask you a question regarding your statement that doctors must do no harm

If you have a terminally ill patient in awful pain and your choices are 1) providing pain relief such as diamorphine or ketamine knowing that although it will provide the needed pain relief it will hasten the end or 2) provide ineffectual pain relief that leaves the patient in terrible pain and all the evidence tells you the person is going to die anyway .


I am 100% pro choice in that a person has the right to decide when they will die, my only concern is that the decision is made freely without any pressure (real or perceived) from anyone.

I also worry about the advancements in medicine because we now have or are getting the technology to design a human . I understand that there may be laws in place to prevent that but those laws can be changed and who decides what is desirable. We only need to look at art to see what is thought of as beautiful has changed, once a woman was thought to be particularly beautiful if she was curved with large breasts etc then more recently stick thin up and down women were thought to be the ideal . These shapes are not just about the way we eat or exercise but also about genetics .

[judgemental24]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

If a doctor gives pain relief knowing that course of medication will shut down his breathing then that will be gross negligence manslaughter

A doctor patient have a unique special relationship and a duty of care

If memory serves me right it comes under Offences against the Persons Act

[Berniethebolt]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

If a doctor gives pain relief knowing that course of medication will shut down his breathing then that will be gross negligence manslaughter

A doctor patient have a unique special relationship and a duty of care

If memory serves me right it comes under Offences against the Persons Act

I must disagree , I am not talking going from zero to overdose but progressive increases in medication to relieve pain . The side effect can be that the breathing is depressed and that along with overall weakness causes death. This happens all the time in hospitals and hospices with the thanks of patients and relatives . I know that if I were terminally ill I would want pain relief even if that were to shorten my life .
Having seen two people die in hospital the Drs did the right thing.

[judgemental24]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

I am against any form of euthanasia, that is why the liverpool pathway was scrapped through public anger

The majority of people have never heard of it which includes myself

I heard about it on a radio show while driving through the Nevada Desert

Taking a life is not only Morally wrong, but illegal and unethical

Who gave anyone the right to play God

No matter what the provocation

[Fred]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

I have witnessed far too many of my family part company, mainly due to the dreaded cancer.

What I do not want or more importantly will never tolerate with the character given to me is to be, incapacitated having my dignity & life controlled by others, losing all what matters to me, having no control & essentially being a burden which disturbs me deeply.

I cried like a baby when we had to agree euthanasia for my best pet dog a couple of years ago but knew it was right given the circumstances.

Some things just will never be "right" in the true sense of the word & the worst or greatest thing you can take away from an individual is their right/s to choose or to be "free"

[judgemental24]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

That is what upsets me the most, the notion that people will be a burden ,both physically and financially

We need to get a leaf out of the sub continent on how they look after elderly relatives

How as a civilised society did we end up with this mentality,

Sorry for the Godwins law bit but you get the idea

Who gave anyone the right to play God??

[Berniethebolt]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

How , as an atheist can you ask who gave us the right to play God, is the irony not lost upon you?

You talk about the way people live in the sub continent , well lets face it large parts of the area do not have the option because of grinding poverty and natural disaster . Bangladesh is one of the poorest nations on earth with their capital quite likely to vanish under its own weight or due to a natural disaster . Parts of the European continent have a much more enlightened view on assisted suicide than us uptight anally retentive brits

I am afraid that people like you , and Harold Shipman have consigned people to die in appalling pain with no quality of life .

I have not seen anyone suggest that we should end lives for being a burden, it is about free will and choice. Who are you to deny people that right?

[judgemental24]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

THAT IS APPALLING USING MY NAME AND HAROLD SHIPMAN IN THE SAME CONTEXT

So much for an objectve debate

i AM OUT OF HERE

[Amethyst]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

Have to agree Jon, that is taking it a little bit too far. People are entitled to their views on assisted suicide without being aligned with a serial murderer.

[Celestine]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

Also ..... Harold Shipman didn't condemn his victims to a life of constant pain, in fact he murdered them via an overdose. So Shipman has no relevance at all to the 'assisted dying' debate? If anything at all, he was pro euthanasia......or maybe that was one of his motivations??

[PAWS]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

This is a highly emotive subject and I do not intend to turn this thread into a ‘roll around in the dirt’ with a million ‘he said, you said ‘over every little point but respecting others opinion and not turning a disagreement into a personal attack is not a matter of opinion –it is the civilized and mature way to debate a topic.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

I also believe in choice, personally I want an instant death. Bullet through the heart, plane crash without warning, that sort of thing. The last thing I'd want is to end my days in hospital connected to a lot of machines via tubes and cables. That would be fine if I was suffering from a condition that can be cured so I could get up and get out of hospital, that not being the case, what's the purpose of being alive if you are in life support, intensive care, etc.? That's not living!

We are all entitled to our opinions and a subject like this is always going to cause disagreements, however, that shouldn't be a reason to get upset or fall out with people. We can all agree to disagree, after all we are talking about someone none of us know. We are not here to decide for him or his family, so it doesn't matter if one thinks it's right and the other that it's the worst thing that could happen, it's not going to change anything.

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: Simon Binner: Terminally ill man announces death on LinkedIn

This is so wrong on all counts

His family will probably be prosecuted for unlawful homicide in aiding the unlawful death

Even though he has made that decision everyone has the right to life

If you do not like the law then change it, do not break it

It's his choice and animals/pets are put down all the time.

This country would be a better place without all those do-gooders who always want to decide what's best for others!