DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

[labman]

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

I see your point Bill, but it is a means tested benefit, and I think it would be difficult to argue her means were the same x years after her original assessment. I imagine the DWP would say the reason for the change in circumstances re their means is irrelevant, it was a change, and as such should have been notified.

I'd love someone to prove me totally wrong!

[Inca]

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

What an excellent hypothesis BillyBops,,cos yet again I understood it !!! I shall follow this with interest x

[Willin']

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

Thanks for the spreadsheet Bill. I'll give it a bash when I have the financial details to hand. With regard to other comments may I state that no-one had POA for my mother - she was very sharp mentally even though she was deaf and nearly blind. She didn't have access to the internet (not much use to her anyway) and we only went by the documentation provided by the Pension Service when this situation arose. We were/are guided by the fact it explicitly states that no changes in capital have to be notifed during the period of assessment. Therefore no-one would have thought to contact the Pension Service to inform them when they had categorically stated in black and white that no such information was required. So it seems a bit strange - not to say confusing/contrary/contradictory - to then have this situation whereby they can retrospectively object to the fact that there is now capital when they didn't want to know about it before.

[labman]

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

We were/are guided by the fact it explicitly states that no changes in capital have to be notifed during the period of assessment.

OK, so two questions:

1. Could you post up a copy of the info where this is stated please?

2. Apologies if this has been mentioned. You state 'during the assessment period.' Does the assessment period end once an award has been made, as her means have then been assessed and all is complete? After this, changes in circumstance would then need to be notified.

[Willin']

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

OK, so two questions:

1. Could you post up a copy of the info where this is stated please?

2. Apologies if this has been mentioned. You state 'during the assessment period.' Does the assessment period end once an award has been made, as her means have then been assessed and all is complete? After this, changes in circumstance would then need to be notified.

Hi Labman
Here is the link for Assessed Income Period - bear in mind my mother had an assessment in 2003 and nothing (according to the Pensions Service thereafter). Also the information given by letter to my mother does not contain all of this detail. I've only come across it since this came up.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/publications/s...iod/#endsearly

And this just about states the information we were given in my mother's assesssment letter. I don't have the letter to hand to copy verbatim.
"
Changes to capital during an assessed income period

Your customer does not have to tell us about changes to their capital during the assessed income period. However, if their capital changes and they think they could be entitled to more Pension Credit, they can tell us and ask for their Pension Credit to be recalculated. If this happens, we will ask for details of all (non-state) pension, annuity income, any equity release payments and capital at that point.
If the total is less than the figure we have been using, their Pension Credit will go up. If the total is the same as, or more than, the figure we have been using, their Pension Credit will stay the same.

"

[Willin']

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

While I am on. As my mother was 78(ish) when the first application was done in 2003 her first assessed income period following on from that application would not have ended at the end of the normal five year period according to this (quoted from the link given in previous post). I have emboldened the final sentence.

The assessed income period normally lasts for five years. It may be shorter if, for example:

• your customer or their partner will be 65 in the next five years, or
• they expect a second pension or annuity to start or change within the next 12 months (other than because of a normal yearly increase), or
• they expect their capital to change significantly in the next 12 months.

If your customer is aged 80 or over, or will become 80 during their assessed income period, it will not end automatically after 5 years and will only end if one of the circumstances described under When the assessed income period ends early applies.

[labman]

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

Thanks for that. I've had a quick look at the link and this seems the relevant bit to me:

When the period ends

When an assessed income period ends (other than at the end of Pension Credit entitlement) we may ask for details of all your customer’s circumstances and Pension Credit will be recalculated.

Pension Credit reduces

This may mean your customer’s Pension Credit goes down because their pensions, annuity income, any equity release payments and capital are higher than before.
If this is the case, the new amount will apply from the start of the new assessed income period only.
This does not mean that they have been overpaid Pension Credit during the previous assessed income period, because any increases to private pensions(other than normal yearly increases), annuity income (other than normal yearly increases), equity release payments and capital are ignored until the end of the assessed income period.



It seems to me it's a question of whether the DWP should have automatically re-assessed after 5 years, or whether your Mum should have asked for an assessment. I dislike this phrase:

they expect their capital to change significantly in the next 12 months.

How much is 'significantly'?

Hopefully you will be on safe ground, and from the little I've read, I think you'd have grounds for appeal. I guess you won't know for sure until the DWP have a look at things.

Best of luck with it!

[Willin']

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

Well, exactly - it's as clear as mud. Obviously I'll have to wait until I get the judgement back from the DWP and that could take some time. I am not expecting anything until about October at the earliest and then I'll have some time to assess the situation, take further legal advice and prepare a challenge if one is necessary.

Maybe it won't come to that. Time will tell.

[labman]

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

Fingers crossed for you! :beagle:

[Willin']

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

Thanks Labman. I'll keep this thread updated with any developments as I know it is frustrating to find a thread relevant to your situation and then be unable to see the results and have to start from scratch.

[labman]

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

Much appreciated!

[geedee0520]

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

There's a thread here which may be helpful http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...4078731&page=1 One reply says:

'When the DWP is notified of a death they register the total of the capital declared on the claim.

If the estate turns out to be more than that amount they have to check and see what the additional capital was.

The most common reason is the value of the home lived in and, as that is disregarded for benefit purposes, there is no effect on benefits.'

In my case the amount declared in 2009 as capital on the original application was about a 5th of the actual amount -thus all PC had to be repaid.

I strongly recommend calling the Recovery from Estates team who will talk you through the issues.

[Bill-K]

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

Hopefully, this will not end with DWP demanding repayment of Pension Credit, and is merely a formality. However, if you do need to demonstrate that the increases in capital were entirely due to the receipt of PC., then I've attached a spreadsheet for this, as promised earlier.

Here's hoping you don't have to use it !!!

[wales01man]

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

On the other hand the DWP can say Pension credits are for someone to pay for food and other bills associated with day to day living this not build up a stash maybe why some benefits are means tested....Food for thought?

[Bill-K]

Re: DWP Recovery from Estate - Pension Credit overpayment

Indeed so, Wales - there are arguments to be had for both sides of the equation. My argument here would be that W's Mum was supported by her family in the true spirit of the 'Care in the Community' that was foisted upon us all several years ago. For the DWP to now penalise her for embracing a government initiative is hypocritical to say the least, I reckon. She was entitled to her PC because presumably she had no (or little) private pension funding. Her family came to her aid, and helped her to avoid paying for things which she didn't need to. As a result, she wasn't forced to spend all of her PC. That doesn't mean she was any less entitled to it, though, surely. Instead of spending it on riotous living, she was prudent enough to ensure that she would not burden the community any further, and saved her PC for a time when the family support might not be available. It's a tricky argument though - I agree.

PS. Congrats on the recent addition to the Wales family !!!:baby: