Council Tax after death

[Openlaw15]

Re: Council Tax after death

Hi Vmax
I thought the whole point was that there was no council tax at all due because
1) There were no arrears at the time your father died

2) Council tax is not due u til probate is granted

3) After probate is granted , providing the house is unoccupied there is 6 months of no council tax.

4) You kept the council fully informed- if in fact you did, for example did you tell them the house had been sold?

In in any event assuming 1 and 2 were correct there would only be 3 months due but the argument is that there is non due.

Personally I think that the letter drafted by Openlaw has completely missed the point. In addition I think it is just far too heavy. I know councils can be difficult to deal with but simple straightforward letters will almost certainly get the result you want.

It's not missing the point, it's asking the council to prove their claim. The council simply shouldn't be making claims against estate unless they have good grounds to, so they need to be told. If you write a soft letter they'll just dictate to you.

[JulieM]

Re: Council Tax after death

Openlaw
If the average revenues officer in CT recovery gets that how do you really think they will react. They will think some idiot has swallowed a legal dictionary. Well that's my pinion and I have delt with CT departments in this capacity myself. The people are not inhuman although sometimes it seems so, they are just scared of getting audited. A simple explanation , simply explained usually gets a reasonable response.

We we are not getting all legal here just sorting a mistake.

[des8]

Re: Council Tax after death

This from Bolton's website: http://www.bolton.gov.uk/website/pag...xemptions.aspx

Unoccupied properties which are exempt:
» Left empty because someone has died are exempt where probate has yet to be made and for up to six months after probate has been granted

Someone has cocked up... a gentle nudge should clear it without getting all legal

[223Vmax]

Re: Council Tax after death

Many thanks to all who responded it is all appreciated. This got me thinking though. Hypothetically if the property remained unsold after the 6 month grace period from Probate being granted, could the executor be liable for CT on the property? So if after 12 months after probate being granted the property was sold and estate and assets dealt with could a council pursue the executor for 6 months CT?

[Openlaw15]

Re: Council Tax after death

Openlaw
If the average revenues officer in CT recovery gets that how do you really think they will react. They will think some idiot has swallowed a legal dictionary. Well that's my pinion and I have delt with CT departments in this capacity myself. The people are not inhuman although sometimes it seems so, they are just scared of getting audited. A simple explanation , simply explained usually gets a reasonable response.

We we are not getting all legal here just sorting a mistake.

The state was given the power to make claims against the estate of the deceased under the Tories in 1992. A mistake you say? The problem is the lawyers who act for the state are ruthless, and this has been the case for several Ops, especially 'pension credit' situations for claims against estate. So, the state (the Council) must prove it's controversial right to make a claim against his late father's estate. So, I am not nonchalant when it comes to state powers as every power the state uses has to be validated by a legal/ public law authority: Entick v Carrington (1765) 19 State Tr 1029 This is why we have a Magna Carta past so the state can never abuse its power.

[wales01man]

Re: Council Tax after death

If the property is not sold in the time period where its exempt from CT sold after the estate must be liable for CT and this would be paid from the sale funds surely?????

[223Vmax]

Re: Council Tax after death

If the property is not sold in the time period where its exempt from CT sold after the estate must be liable for CT and this would be paid from the sale funds surely?????

But the estate is dealt with, then the executor get a CT bill - whose liable? Surely its the beneficiaries not the executor personally.

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Council Tax after death

IMO you need something rather basic.
Along these lines perhaps:

Re council tax demand ref******

I write to confirm that the dwelling house *******
was owned by my late father.
He passed away on***************, at which time there was no outstanding council tax due.
The property was then unoccupied.
Probate was granted to me on*****************
The property was sold on ************
The estate has been distributed to my late father's heirs.

My understanding is that following his death the property is considered exempt for council tax purposes until probate is granted, and thereafter for a period of six months whilst remaining empty.

Accordingly I believe the captioned demand has been made in error and I await your confirmation of its cancellation.

Await others comments!

Des8, I applaud you! Absolutely spot on.

This debate has gone far beyond what is necessary. I spent 23 years as an outside officer for a local authority and intensively nudged shoulders with these 'average revenue officers'. I can tell you that the average council tax department is never that 'well oiled' and doesn't have instant access to proper legal opinion, indeed it is limited and has to be paid for by each relevant department as if they were fee paying customers. That means that council tax departments need to work on their own knowledge and perception of the rules and I have spent years arguing with them to keep things simple so that we all go in the same direction. And the trouble with arguments on here is that a full and informed time line of events tends to unfold as the arguments unfold ... Council officers tend to become effective by 'working by experience' and that means that the average officer may make a decision that that probably needs a second or even third opinion. But present the facts right, ordered and complete and that makes their job so much easier.

[JulieM]

Re: Council Tax after death

Vmax
I suspect it would be the beneficiaries but in this case there should be no CT due at all. As you are going to have to write to the council where not nip this in the bed now.

Of course, and this is a different set of circumstances , there are standards that an executor needs to adhere to and I believe if negligence is shown they can be personally liable. But that is not the case here.

Snoopy
I wasn't being disrespectful to LA employees , just that as you say they will not be lawyers or trained in legalese.

[des8]

Re: Council Tax after death

Many thanks to all who responded it is all appreciated. This got me thinking though. Hypothetically if the property remained unsold after the 6 month grace period from Probate being granted, could the executor be liable for CT on the property? So if after 12 months after probate being granted the property was sold and estate and assets dealt with could a council pursue the executor for 6 months CT?

The executor, whilst not personally liable for the council tax charge, is responsible for making payment from the deceased's estate.
So one hopes the prudent executor is aware of his responsibilities, as the same applies to any utility company charges that might have accrued

The council in practice will issue a demand almost as soon as the six months is up, and if it remains unpaid and there is no contact with the executor, they will take further steps to ensure eventual payment.
I doubt they will let it accumulate for 6 months, and the house sold and proceeds distributed without taking some form of action.
Snoopy will know more about that, but I think they may even register the debt with Land Registry

[Snoopy1948]

Re: Council Tax after death

Interestingly enough, the regulations state that a 'discretionary' six months further exemption may be given after the date that Probate was granted assuming that the property remains empty at all times. I wonder who's lap that discretion falls on? And indeed is it fair that council A grants it but neighbouring council B does not? I suspect that it all depends on the current year's budget shortfall but then it's so easy to be cynical. From Des8's excellent précis of the situation in hand, I think this council should be drawing a line under this case.