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Joint Account Mess

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  • Joint Account Mess

    Hello,

    I'd be really grateful for some advice please.

    I'm an executor on my late Mum's estate, along with my two older brothers. My Mum's estate should consist of her house and savings, approx £42K, which is divided equally between the three of us.

    The problem is that oldest brother was manging my Mum's finances for the last three years of her life, initially informally using her bank card, but then he took her to the bank to set up a formal arrangement. Middle brother and I only learnt, after her death, that he converted my Mum's bank accounts to Joint Accounts.(No LPA) My Mum was very frail when he did this, and wouldn't have known about the survivorship rules and wouldn't have wanted this money to pass to him. Older brother has been to the bank with the death certificate and the accounts are now in his name - the bank won't even give middle brother or me statements for the accounts.

    I don't think older brother really thinks the money is his but he is continually trying to bully middle brother and me and hold us to ransom to try and get his own way. He's also done something dodgy relating to my Mum's social care package which he organized. Based on things he has said verbally, and in an email to us, we think he concealed my Mum's savings from the Local Authority to get free care . He moved £25K to his own bank account, when my Mum was in hospital and looked as though she would need care, and middle brother and I have got the bank statements from my Mum's house, showing this. The only way we would know this for sure though is to try and get my Mum's social care record.

    So older brother is unwilling to include my Mum's savings in the Probate application and her estate, I think because he is worried the Council may find out about them. Initially he wanted middle brother and me to agree to keep the money out of the Probate application and then he told us that he would privately share it out once the estate administration had been completed, which we wouldn't agree to. Now, he is suggesting making a Deed Of Variation on the estate to reduce his portion, so that we would in effect be getting equal shares, but in a round about way, and middle brother and I would have to concede that the money in the Joint Accounts is his and therefore be excluded from my Mum's estate.

    Middle brother and I have been to see a dispute solicitor, and told him everything, including the possible social care fraud, who advised us that we could potentially bring a claim against older brother for the return of the money to the estate but both middle brother and I are worried about stress and costs escalating.

    So my question is should middle brother and I consider agreeing to the Deed of Variation, which would eventually give us equal shares, or should we consider bringing a claim to retrieve the money for the estate?

    Thank you.





    Tags: None

  • #2
    Obviously the deed of variation would be cheaper and less hassle than what may be an unnecessary and expensive court case. Can acceptable terms be agreed?
    Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now supervising solicitor in a university law clinic. I do not advise by private message.

    Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

    Comment


    • #3
      What was the value of your late mum's house at the time of her death?
      If your father is deceased, was he married to your mum when he died and did he leave all his estate to your mum?
      Probate may not be required depending on the value of the house.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by atticus View Post
        Obviously the deed of variation would be cheaper and less hassle than what may be an unnecessary and expensive court case. Can acceptable terms be agreed?
        Thank you for your reply Atticus.

        The Deed of Variation has only just been suggested and there is no detail as yet. We're not even quite sure how much money there is in the Joint Accounts. Older brother isn't engaging with middle brother and me at the moment - we received this 'offer' via a solicitors letter. He is also now refusing to use the solicitor we had all previously agreed to apply for Probate for us and wants to use his own solicitor instead. So I think there needs to be some negotiation yet. The original solicitor is suggesting that he liaise with the new solicitor to represent our interests but is that workable? Presumably there can only be one solicitor applying for Probate?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Pezza54 View Post
          What was the value of your late mum's house at the time of her death?
          If your father is deceased, was he married to your mum when he died and did he leave all his estate to your mum?
          Probate may not be required depending on the value of the house.
          Thank you for your reply Pezza54.

          My Mum's house has been valued at approx £170,000. Yes my father is already deceased, he was married to my Mum and as far as I know he left all his estate to my Mum. So I think Probate is required?

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, but as the value of your mum's estate is under £325k it is an excepted estate meaning that a full account for IHT purposes is not required and probate should be straight forward. The estate agent and property conveyancer will want a copy of the probate certificate.to advertise and sell the property.

            Is your eldest brother still prepared to transfer or write a cheque for £14k (a third of your mum's savings) for you and your brother? I am not sure why you refused his offer. You will all be worse off with a deed of variation due to the legal fees.

            Comment


            • #7
              Who are the Executors named in you Mother's Will


              Incidentally, you mentioned a solicitor "applying for probate". Just for clarity, only Executors can apply for Probate, the solicitor is just there to advise the Executor(s) how to complete the application form. (Unless the solicitors are named in the Will as an Executor in their own right.)
              All opinions expressed are based on my personal experience. I am not a lawyer and do not hold any legal qualifications.

              Comment


              • #8
                The executors can use the government online IHT checker to calculate approximate values of the gross estate, net estate and net qualifying estate and then apply for probate online transferring the values. Only one executor can apply but all executors will be named on the certificate.

                Comment

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