Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

[Guest]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

And there are probably 12,000 people out there who haven't managed it once, why not share your secret with them

If you think that what I do is a "secret", you obviously have no idea who I am or what I do

And if there is a single person out there, anywhere in the country, who has done or is doing more than I am to protect people from the financial harm caused by online vehicle fraud, then I would like to know his/her name.

[nutsonmercs]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

If you think that what I do is a "secret", you obviously have no idea who I am or what I do

And if there is a single person out there, anywhere in the country, who has done or is doing more than I am to protect people from the financial harm caused by online vehicle fraud, then I would like to know his/her name.

That's a very narcissistic comment to make.

[Guest]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

That's a very narcissistic comment to make.

Okay. In that case, here are some comments that other people have made recently (the past 2 or 3 days)

Babs Davies 7 October 16:37 Why dont ebay listen to you Anita Butler commented on your photo. Anita wrote: "Nice work jack!"

Wayne Dennis commented on your status. so glad I saw your 'busted' add before committing to go see it. Nick Walker 6 October 21:35 Cant fault ya mate, keep up the good work Phil Morris commented on your photo. Phil wrote: "Well done"

Ian Elwell commented on your photo. Ian wrote: "Keep it up!" Julie Bushrod commented on your photo. Julie wrote: "GOLD STAR for you BJ!!"

Paul Aspin commented on your photo. Paul wrote: "well done"

Andy Boyce mentioned you in a comment. Andy wrote: "would love to have seen his face when he checked his online bank, or even better tried using his card and all declined. rot in hell scammer and great work Buster Jack"

Tom Atkinson 5 October 18:37 I think what you're doing is brilliant Keep up the good work.

Tony Suzanne Gregory mentioned you in a comment. I know if I were to buy a vehicle from Ebay I would definitely ask Buster Jack to check it out first."

Karen Passmore 5 October 15:42 Thank you for highlighting these, so many of them about these days Andy Wass 4 October 11:28 The ever increasing scams on Ebay and Gumtree are so annoying for a potential buyer and are surely destroying boths business models, I don't 'get' why they're not more proactive about scammers....... Meanwhile thanks and well done Buster Jack!

[nutsonmercs]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

Seem like typical responses from people who leave it to others to do things that they should be doing themselves. Bit like the response I got from an ex business partner of mine. "you seemed to be doing so well on your own I didn't see the need to interfere!" Needless to say, we soon parted company.

I'm sure that you do an admirable job preventing people getting ripped off, but please don't assume that everyone will/should know your name. I know of others that do much more worthy, and sometimes thankless humanitarian work without a thought of who does and doesn't know about it/them.

[Tools]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

Just to prevent this thread deteriorating into a slanging match, allow me to pass my view if you would.

You all have valid points, and even the victims themselves would agree with both sides.

Yes people should check more, everyone likes a bargain and should not be blinkered by the convincing stories given to them by the scammers, however, they are extremely convincing and plausible to someone not used to buying high value items such as vehicles. The shop online and get it delivered to your door culture is in the main a good system but caution needs to be taken and common sense used.

Buster, Boycie and many others spend countless unpaid hours doing exactly what eBay, Auto Trader, Gumtree etc should be doing themselves, not even the ad sites give them any thanks for what they do, in fact quite the opposite.

There is no right or wrong to either argument, the simple fact is that while ever there is money involved, fraud will happen somewhere along the line. Human nature dictates both sides.

[nutsonmercs]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

Just to prevent this thread deteriorating into a slanging match, allow me to pass my view if you would.

That's the last thing on my mind

someone not used to buying high value items

All the more reason for people to take precautions and not allow others to take advantage

Buster, Boycie and many others spend countless unpaid hours doing exactly what eBay, Auto Trader, Gumtree etc should be doing themselves, not even the ad sites give them any thanks for what they do, in fact quite the opposite.

I don't doubt that many sing their praises

There is no right or wrong to either argument, the simple fact is that while ever there is money involved, fraud will happen somewhere along the line. Human nature dictates both sides.

There's no question at all that fraud is wrong and I don't believe anyone has said the opposite. My point, or argument or whatever people want to call it, is personal responsibility. I'll leave it at that.

It' Goodnight from me, and Goodnight from the De:incourt:vil's Advocate in me!

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

Originally Posted by nutsonmercs

I'm not sure how the system works but I would imagine that it takes a lot of time to investigate the accounts concerned which in the meantime means the criminals get away with their ill-gotten gains. Closing or restricting the account of a legitimate business could mean that the banks themselves could face heavy compensation claims from those affected.

It doesn't take any time at all. If I looked up your balance I have access to everything the bank knows about you, from your contact details, regular payments, mortgage, security and any half competent bank worker can flash through it in seconds. From limits to account and banking connections the jumble of figures on the screen will sum you up in a trice. Having said that the time it takes is irrelevant as it is no justification that you're in a hurry if you break the speed limit, it's a legal obligation. The interesting thing is that the staff at my bank were left in no doubt that, though it would be an error of omission, they could personally face prosecution if they didn't report suspicious transactions.

I am paid to process work accurately and efficiently. Complying with money laundering legislation is a legal obligation. I can be sacked for not doing either, but if I fail to do the latter I can also be prosecuted, and so can the bank - in theory.

Originally Posted by nutsonmercs

They justify them by saying how well they have done and look at all the money they have made or, well if we hadn't done what we did, things would have been a lot worse !

My point is that the underlying tactic is bogus in simply targeting the accumulation of accounts and that this has not only caused banks to take a more lax attitude to money laundering legislation, but it is also self-defeating as regards earnings for the bank. Simply opening a bank account is a cost to the bank, and shutting one they've recently opened is even more costly, especially if they have to deal with the repercussions.

The topic of 'profiling' is topical and contentious but I can assure you that my bank did it and every modern commercial organisation does it even if they don't admit it. The banks would do it now but they have managed to do away with those services which meant they had to bear the losses. If they were taking the losses be in no doubt that they would easily identify those accounts at risk of involvement in fraud and they wouldn't open them. My bank certainly did that as policy.

Originally Posted by nutsonmercs

Seems to me that the criminals use the concept of KYC and very good they are at it

Criminals devote a lot of time in learning banking rules and practices and when I worked in a main banking branch it was amazing to see them at work. We even had to mark and record when people asked for blank application forms simply so that we could track where they were going and where they would appear. Some of the forgeries that came back were masterpieces but the criminals didn't know we could identify them immediately.

The basis of many frauds is knowing what your target wants and offering it to them easily and bank staff are as vulnerable to that ploy as anyone else, especially when they are under pressure to achieve targets. Of course if the bank staff are in on the fraud, that's a different situation.

There would be relatively simple ways to foil the use of accounts for this type of fraud by setting strict limits for payment receipts from unexpected sources for a limited time, or for a certain number of transactions. I don't expect that these accounts ever see more than one fraudulent transaction and setting up an account to look genuine would be an onerous task for a criminal. It's not bright for a bank to appear to be offering one time use bank accounts for fraud, now and again perhaps. It irks me because I was never so stupid and I see no reason why banks should be so stupid nowadays.

[dixie2013]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

HERE'S AN UPDATE FROM http://escrow-fraud.com/search.php

more fake shipping companies "Records 1 thorough 50 of 13392 " thats a lot of fake shipping companies

id	Date Reported	Site Name	Reported Address	Image	IP Address	Layout
13525	07-Oct-2014	Egoli Express	http://egoliexpress.com		206.188.192.113	Layout311
13524	05-Oct-2014	Terra-Prime (PVT) LTD	http://terra-prime-ltd.eu		176.28.103.205	Layout42
13523	05-Oct-2014	Belfast Express Transport LTD	http://belfast-express.cargo-dv.com			Layout272
13522	04-Oct-2014	nfdl logistics	http://www.nfdl-logistics.eu		185.27.134.228	Layout312
13521	04-Oct-2014	bgn transport	http://bgntransport.eu/index.php		185.27.134.120	Layout312
13520	26-Sep-2014	Worldwide Delivery	http://euromat-solutions-ltd.com		81.169.145.157	Layout210
13519	26-Sep-2014	Cao Transporters	http://global-transporters-consultant.co....		212.227.195.198	Layout96
13518	26-Sep-2014	Sealion Freight Transport	http://sealionfreight.net		87.106.158.75	Layout272

[dixie2013]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

i don't quite understand the logic of someone using a consumer rights forum to basically say to victims of this serious organised global online car ad fraud i told you so or how could you be so stupid, to rub a victims nose in it does nobody any good or get anyone anywere, this forum is used for victims and TO PREVENT MORE VICTIMS losing there money, it isnt any co-incidence that the fbi/interpol/nca can not find these criminals, if i had any sort of online business and had to deal with buyers/sellers online on a daily basis i would probably be aware of most scams and keep an eye out to steer well clear of them, but in most cases i/we was looking for a car online and was sucked in or as OTHER people want to say suckered in, ebay account holders(as well as autotrader uk) which very worryingly includes MOTOR TRADERS accounts are being hacked daily by the fraudsters, if i used/relied on ebay/autotrader as a car trader i would start looking at taking my business elsewhere as the risk of my account being hacked is increasing daily, i am not looking for someone else to blame i just want the ad sites and the banks to put an end to it, this crime has been going on for over 3 years!! and is happening right now as i type this and that cannot be right!!!! , there isnt a day that has passed in last 12 months that i havnt researched this or visited this thread, people who are not victims of this also dedicate countless hours to prevent ordanary people losing there money, if these volenteers were not present the problem would be ten-fold so scambaiters like boycie and jack and others should be applauded, after what i have seen i wouldnt touch ebay/gumtree/autotrader with a barge pole and that goes for selling too, prevention is better than detection so anybody who feels this cannot be right will carry on fighting this until victims are refunded and ad sites and banks should BE LIABLE for any fraud commited on there site and or business, progress is being made and this site along with its users are making a notible difference so keep up the good work everyone and togther we can put the wheels in motion to put an end to it for good

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

http://www.fca.org.uk/about/what/pro...ney-laundering

All FSMA-authorised firms must put in place systems and controls to prevent financial crime, which includes money-laundering.

In addition, all firms subject to the Money Laundering Regulations 2007 must put in place systems and controls to identify, assess and mitigate money laundering. It is an offence if firms do not disclose suspicions of money laundering.

Interestingly the banks' obligation under FCA regulations in the words of the FCA isn't just to put in place system to mitigate money laundering, but to prevent financial crimes and money laundering.

Of course I make the presumption that the FCA are familiar with the English language.

The common banking excuse that they followed their procedures may be true, but equally suggests that the banks' procedures are inadequate and therefore self-evidently non-compliant. As a simple analogy if, as a bank manager I keep granting loans that are never repaid, no matter that I may have followed the rules, the bank will take action to get rid of me. Only lemmings continue with a course of action destructive to themselves and those around them. The conclusion must be drawn that as this failure doesn't directly lose them money, and victims of their failing procedures cannot obtain redress against them, they could give a hoot.

Apologies but I love regulations, and reading small print but that was my job. This is from what may be described as the 'Idiot's Guide to FCA Rules' published by the FCA and I would hope that there may be a banker somewhere who has read them.

http://media.fshandbook.info/Handboo...l_20140401.pdf

Examples of good practice

• Senior management set the right tone and demonstrate leadership on financial crime issues.
• A firm takes active steps to prevent criminals taking advantage of its services.
• A firm has a strategy for self-improvement on financial crime.
• There are clear criteria for escalating financial crime issues.

Examples of poor practice
• There is little evidence of senior staffinvolvement and challenge in practice.
• A firm concentrates on narrow compliance with minimum regulatory standards and has little engagement with the issues.
• Financial crime issues are dealt with on a purely reactive basis.
• There is no meaningful record or evidence of senior management considering financial crime risks.

I'll go through the handbook in more detail but, in every example of fraud we see banks fail to meet the basic standards required by the FCA and demonstrate failure to comply with good practice, and appear content to boast to victims of fraud that in meeting their most basic standards they have no further duty - but they are wrong and the FCA says so.

If we can ever get together 20 victims to make a joint formal complaint to the FCA this would form the basis of the argument, together with the banks' letters which give the misguided opinion that minimum regulatory compliance is acceptable. Along with details of the numbers of accounts involved in fraud, I feel that it would make a compelling case.

[dixie2013]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

just listened to this http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04kbl8p ,24 minutes in is something of interest to victims on this forum!! the scale of online car ad fraud alone could give the bbc a story not only on bbc4's money box program but also televised nationwide and I am not talking about a couple of minutes here and there on rip off britain or watch dog but a FULL 30MIN panarama type program, quite frankly until this is exposed the banks or online ad sites won't do anythink about

[Guest]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

As a professional adviser once regulated by the FSA I can say with heart-felt conviction that those letters are very appropriate as an acronym for the people that used to run the operation.

And FCA is just as fitting. I'll leave it to your fertile imaginations.

Perhaps, just perhaps, one day this country will have a financial regulator that actually regulates the nation's finances.

[Tools]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

I keep trying Dixie, but unless they have a "scammer" to chase along the streets they are unwilling. I am currently in talks with Radio 4 about the issue of mule bank accounts

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

Possibly I'm a super-intelligent human being whose loss was a major blow to the banking industry, but I suspect not, and the concept of 'due diligence' shouldn't be entirely unknown to banks though recent high profile examples do cast doubt on that.

Setting that side, someone who opens a bank account can only do so for one or two reasons - to pay money away or receive money in, and the former can only occur once the latter has taken place, unless the bank is completely witless. That being the case, anyone opening a new account is likely to know where the first payment is likely to come from - their employer or benefits in most instances. In either case it provides an extra means to verify identity, if necessary by taking a reference and a means to ensure accounts are only opened to receive expected payments and don't lie as financial 'lobster pots' waiting to receive stolen money. A limit on incoming funds could be set at £1,000 unless the person is expecting a larger payment and he can explain why unless he thinks money randomly comes into accounts for no particular reason.

Though taking a reference would cause a delay, the questions I mention wouldn't take more than 30 seconds. A newly opened account could be flagged in the same way that dormant accounts are, except to trigger alerts when unexpected large amounts are received and can be referred.

If any of this appears onerous, the fact is that any half-brained member of bank staff can identify a 'high risk' account very quickly. The checks mentioned would only be required if the staff choose to proceed with opening the account. An East European opening an account against an ID card who doesn't speak English I would consider a high risk account. If they receive unexpected and unexplained large payments in to their account as well, it should trigger a bank to refer it.

Regulatory compliance by a bank isn't optional and whining that it's difficult isn't an excuse. Some banks appear significantly better than others.

[righty]

Re: Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

This may go some way to explain the bankers attitude to their customers
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/libor-fixi...3.html#JmRVZI9