Ebay, Gumtree & Autotrader Vehicle / Car Scams

[Rod Jones]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

20-52-74 is Barclays (where else?) Loughton.

207 High Road, Town Centre, Loughton, IG10 1AZ

I'll add it to the list.

Thanks to this page I've tracked down one of the previously unknown sort codes (20-63-28) to a branch in West Bridgford, Nottingham.
Thanks to this page I've also tracked down 20-44-91 to Islington.

[WeWalkInCircles]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Just a quick follow-up to your last post Rod Jones, I tried to establish with Barclays which branch 20-52-74 relates to and they advised 6 of their branches used this same sort code. Woodford was one mentioned but I didn't note down the others.

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Thank you for confirming my point about the beneficiaries name being irrelevant when making a bank transfer WeWalkInCircles. Not a lot of people know this or understand the implications. The fraudsters do and are making very good use of this banking flaw.

You may be unaware that it is also a part of international money laundering legislation that every payment shows the remitter of the funds. How ludicrous then that the identity of the originator is required to be disclosed by law, when the receiver can hide behind a banking flaw and banking secrecy legislation ? They cannot only use a bank account as a tool to perform fraud, but then also assume any identity they desire to ensure that they are out of reach of the law. If you'd seen some of the ID cards being used to open these accounts you'd laugh. Examples I've seen may just be variations produced for comic purposes, but fake ID cards for countries like Romania are very cheap to obtain on the streets. The UK has become so lax that it has become a hub for global fraud with it being reported that a large number of consumers in Australia are bringing a class action law suit against a UK bank and even victims in Eastern Europe are finding payments being laundered through UK bank accounts.

The fraudsters have barely tapped anywhere near the full potential of this fraud. If they target companies or government departments, issuing bills and demands in their name, these accounts can do serious harm to the economy. If you consider that I'm being alarmist I can post links to some of the major frauds they have already performed.

It doesn't require a new initiative, merely proper application of existing laws and procedures, and strict enforcement and penalties for those found not to be adhering to them. It is not the job of the FCA/FSA to point out failings in the system and respond with a shrug of the shoulders and exclaim "What can you do ?". Your job - is the appropriate response.

[Rod Jones]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

The name should be used at the very least as a form of error checking. What if you were paying a large sum of money legitimately, and got a digit wrong in the sort code? Boom, that's your money winging its way into someone else's account, and Barclays' response would be the same as if you'd paid it to a scammer: not their problem.

[WeWalkInCircles]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Thank you for your response to my post Boycie. I certainly don't think you are being alarmist at all. I have read about the class action from Australians which I understand to be against Barclays! I have also seen posts on other forums, which I am guessing are from yourself, in response to other frauds where companies have been targeted. My question for you would be do you know specifically what it is that Barclays are doing or more likely aren't doing that other high street banks are because surely this is the common factor in all of these fraud cases?

[WeWalkInCircles]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

I couldn't agree more with your last comment Rod Jones especially when you consider all the banks are encouraging us to use online banking to pay bills and make payments, which I guess we might otherwise have done by cheque. With the latter I believe the banks do check the account payee is correct. Why the banks have decided with online bank transfers to ignore the account payee's name makes no sense. Furthermore, if they choose to do so and don't tell us why should we have to accept the risk?

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

It's the reason why banks have long wished to do away with cheques. One that has been crossed 'A/C payee' is something they cannot ignore, and it provides the payer with a protection that no electronic payment can. Changes in banking law are being designed for the sole purpose of making the customer/consumer responsible for flaws that put them at risk.

The current situation is untenable. Apart from the continuing headline money laundering cases, what will finally bring the system in to complete disrepute is if it affects the ordinary person in their day to day transactions. If a bank cannot perform the simple basic task of identifying a customer, then the whole point of money laundering legislation is an expensive waste of effort.

If money laundering legislation exists, then this shouldn't be happening on the scale we currently observe, and why has the UK become a hub for money laundering operations ?

[stevelaw1234]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

I have been reading this thread with interest as I too have recently been the victim of an internet scam. Slightly different circumstances but there are some interesting similarities! Such as the money ending up in a Barclays account 23901394 sort code 20-52-74. Another one for your list I think Rod Jones - I believe the sort code falls into the same area of London (By the way can I thank you for your sterling work.) The money was the final payment for a villa rental (advertised through Owners Direct), a legitimate transaction but the owner's email had been hacked in to and the fraudster intercepted certain emails which included changing the owner's bank account details! I am pursuing the issue with Halifax/Lloyds which brings me to a point well-made earlier in this thread by Boycie. When I complete an online bank transfer the bank requests only 3 pieces of account information, the first being the name of the recipient, then sort code and account number. I was not aware the first piece of information is completely ignored, certainly there is nothing on the screen which tells me this! Indeed on the payment successful page the bank tells me very clearly that I have paid my named recipient and the name is given first in a much larger font and highlighting colour, whereas the bank account number and sort code are in much smaller font and black. My bank is now telling me the recipient's name is for information purposes only but why then do they include a separate field specifically for reference purposes or more importantly why ask for it in the first place? It certainly gave me the reassurance my money was being paid to the right person. My bank is also trying to hide behind the DPA. I believe this has no relevance as I am not asking them to divulge any personal information! My point is that if the name had been checked against the other 2 pieces of account information before payment was authorised there would have been a mismatch and the fraud could not have worked. If the bank chooses not to use the first of only 3 pieces of account information requested why should the risk of them doing so fall to me? By ignoring the payee's name the bank enabled the success of the fraud. Fraudsters are clearly exploiting the anonymity the system is giving them and as long as the loss continues to be borne by the customer the banks have no incentive to make what is probably a relatively straightforward change to the banking system.

wow I never knew this, so are you saying I am paying money into a account whos name is either false or irrelevant, because its the account number and sort code they go for, so the name could be totally false

[WeWalkInCircles]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Of the 3 pieces of information I was requested to provide by the bank for the on-line payment instruction, the first ie the recipient's name was the only piece of account information which belonged to the legitimate payee. The second two pieces the sort code and account number had been replaced by the fraudster. It is only these two pieces of information that the banking system use to make the payment. When coupled with the obvious lax application by certain banks of money laundering legislation, it has allowed the fraudsters a seemingly endless supply of bank accounts to which payments are being redirected.

The on-line payment instruction pages are explicit in confirming I've paid the right person, when in reality the bank has no idea to whom they've paid the money. By giving the account name prominence is totally misleading and the more customers who complain to their banks about this the more chance there is that something might be done. Simply including a message on the payment instruction screen might be a start or removing the field for the payee's name.

[Craigy]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

20-52-74 is Barclays (where else?) Loughton.


207 High Road, Town Centre, Loughton, IG10 1AZ


I'll add it to the list.


Thanks to this page I've tracked down one of the previously unknown sort codes (20-63-28) to a branch in West Bridgford, Nottingham.
Thanks to this page I've also tracked down 20-44-91 to Islington.

Hi rod,
I have had scammers try to get me today but luckily im sharper than most.i have some new Barclays account details that they are using.i will try upload the fake gumtree sales screenshots

[Craigy]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Here we go

[Craigy]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

And this!

[Boycie]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

The best example I came across I uncovered when I was looking in to the bank details given to one victim. I was perplexed when I made a Google search on the account name and I came up with strange results that didn't make sense. It turned out the name translated from Romanian as "You fool' which highlighted the amused disdain that the fraudsters have for the UK banking system. Perhaps it would be going too far to use 'Vlad the Impaler', and it wouldn't assist their scamming, but the inclusion of a beneficiary name on any payment instruction is utterly irrelevant and indeed misleads the payer in to believing it serves a function. In a major fraud, a legal challenge on this issue would be interesting. I am also well aware that these accounts are being opened up using fake ID's with one person opening up different accounts in different names at different branches, otherwise the trips setting up the accounts wouldn't be economically viable.

On a slightly different issue, the FOS have always rejected complaints by victims on the basis that they aren't customers of the bank involved. It would therefore be interesting if a victim happened to also be a customer of the bank where the fraudster held their account, making the transaction effectively an internal transfer between customers. Unfortunately the FOS is hardly impartial in its rulings.

http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013...banking-fraud/

None of the articles I've found actually give details of how the bank accounts were involved in the above case but it's clear that the UK provides a particularly fraudster-friendly banking environment in which money mules can operate. I don't 'buy' the official line that they are dupes. That's just an excuse for the authorities/banks to take no action. It's pretty obvious that the ones being used for the vehicle scams are set up by criminal organisations.

Another fraud being widely reported has been to convince UK local authorities to make payments to scam contractors, or change the bank details of contractors in their books,

http://www.auditnorth.co.uk/news/fra...dment-fraud-26

The cost to the UK taxpayer runs in to the tens of millions of pounds and it isn't possible without the use of bank accounts set up purely for the purpose of fraud. If the accounts have been set up using fake ID with lax procedures, the money's gone and there's no one to prosecute. This report is just from the NHS.

This all started going wrong when banks made the acquisition of bank accounts part of their bonus driven culture, and I know because I spent my working life in banking. At that stage money laundering procedures went out of the window. Staff are rewarded for acquiring accounts, not adhering to money laundering legislation.

If I can find a way to blank out identifying information (without making it worthless to show) I'll post examples of the ID being used. It is both shameful and laughable. I didn't get it by illegal means which merely emphasises that these people have no fear of UK police/authorities.

[ostell]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Reading the 3 documents uploaded by Craigy I would be very suspicious. The grammar is very bad. Where did the documents come from? Or do Gumtree not check their pages?

[Craigy]

Re: Ebay & Gumtree Vehicle Scam. Barclays provide Fraudsters Accounts

Reading the 3 documents uploaded by Craigy I would be very suspicious. The grammar is very bad. Where did the documents come from? Or do Gumtree not check their pages?

They came as emails from this email address - gumtree-sales@london.com. i thought likewise about the grammar.i knew it was a scam so provided them with my correct email address but false home address ect.for the purpose of getting their details to share with you guys ��.i sent them a lovely email back explaining i would now be sharing their details with others...result