BMW Financial Services - Voluntary Termination/Excess Mileage

[hollie1988]

Hi, read through this thread and I am in the same situation although a little more extreme. I am 3.5 years into BMW reporting a "6" on my account every month. I already have a mortgage etc and have no reason to get credit so had not known this was having such an adverse affect until now. I will never pay them off out of principle of the damage they've done to my credit rating. My question is this - How long can they report on this "account" for? 6 years the same as a default or longer? forever?
Any help you can provide will be much appreciated.

[R0b]

Strange, I've removed the file and re-uploaded it onto this post so it hopefully works now.

I've nothing further to add really other than if it does go all the way, the crux of the arguments will come down to whether or not the excess mileage charges or collection fees fall within the meaning of "credit". The obvious answer to me is that it doesn't, for the reasons I've mentioned in the LBA which I think is a fair and reasonable expectation.

If the matter ends up with a hearing at court, I would very much be interested in knowing which court it is so I can possibly attend in person.

[stuckcluckets]

Well it has been some time but I've finally updated an example letter before action that you could use as a basis for bringing a claim. I'll admit that there's probably things in there that can be improved upon but hopefully gives you some comfort to know what you are talking about. In essence, if you were to bring a claim then the contents of the letter is probably what you are going to argue in court.

I should point out that there are a few things in there that may or may not apply to your situation so be sure to make sure the letter is accurate if you are intending on using it. If you need access to it, I'll add it to my list of templates which you can find by clicking here.

Would be good to know your thoughts and comments.

Thanks for doing this R0b. Just FYI, the link you've provided in the post does not work. The document is obtainable through your list of templates however.

I've just been on the phone to BMW Financial Services, asking for details of their legal department so that I can submit the Notice Before Action. I decided to ask also at this point, as one final port of call before going down the court route, whether or not BMW Financial Services would be prepared to make me a reduced offer (i.e. 30% of the alleged balance) to save us both a load of time and hassle. I explained very clearly, that this was in no way an admission of any liability on my part, and that I would only consider any offer made on the basis that all the incorrect/innacurate missed/late payment entries be reported as removed with CRAs. The advisor put me on hold and went off to check. Came back to me with an offer of reducing the alleged balance by 30%. I declined, and pushed back with a counter suggestion of 50%. Off they went again to check, before coming back to me with an acceptance of this suggestion. They then proceeded to explain that, even if I were to accept this offer, they would not be able to remove any former missed/late payment entries that had been submitted to CRAs, and that they would only mark the account as "partially settled". I argued it until I was blue in the face, but they were adament there was nothing they could do on this front, as it would qualify as "incorrect reporting" - the cheek of it!

So it looks as though, regardless of whether or not I had been willing to accept an offer of a reduction of the alleged balance, I'd still have to take them to court anyway for inaccurate reporting! Unbelievable.

If anyone has any thoughts before I "press the button" and seek legal action, then please do voice them!

[R0b]

Well it has been some time but I've finally updated an example letter before action that you could use as a basis for bringing a claim. I'll admit that there's probably things in there that can be improved upon but hopefully gives you some comfort to know what you are talking about. In essence, if you were to bring a claim then the contents of the letter is probably what you are going to argue in court.

I should point out that there are a few things in there that may or may not apply to your situation so be sure to make sure the letter is accurate if you are intending on using it. If you need access to it, I'll add it to my list of templates which you can find by clicking here.

Would be good to know your thoughts and comments.

[Lpl87]

I am new to this site but thank you for your suggestion.

[stuckcluckets]

I've finally been contacted by a BMWFS 'recover' advisor after my requests for the legal department complaining about my credit file being incorrectly marked.

KurtCrisco I used the content of one of your posts, which I slightly modified, that details the SCOR 2016 guidance since they obviously come back with the usual reply that they are doing it correctly, which of course is untrue.

I've advised them that I do not want a lengthy discussion and that I intend in taking them to court for deformation of character if they do not remove the defaults and mark my account as settled.

I await their response...

I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile referring to the many suicides brought on by this sort of practice ruining peoples lives and contacting the media to run a story on it, they could then follow how I get on, maybe it would bring out some good lawyer to fight the case and of course BMWFS to back down.

Not surprising. Every single item of correspondence I've received from them is full of utter waffle. Honestly, I don't even think they've even passed it to their legal team. They're that confident that we as the consumer are unable to fight them on this, that they won't even escalate it.

I admire your tenacity massively, but as you know I've been through all of this already - they'll just send you more nonsense in response. They got so sick of me contacting them, they don't even bother contacting me any more, as I've stated in previous posts.

I'm reliant on R0b finishing off the legal warning document that he provided, that'll be my next port of call. I'm hoping they might actually pass this on to their legal team, but I won't hold my breath.

I would love to find a way to get the media involved, but I just don't think they'll consider it a big enough scandal to bother with it. I've threatened BMW FS with going to the media before, and as per usual, they weren't fussed. I suppose it's for that reason I'm unsure of how much of an impact it'd actually have.

I've raised a complaint with BMW UK directly about the whole mess, as in my view they're equally responsible. They can tell me as much as they like that they're entirely separate to BMW Financial Services, but unfortunately for them, the BMW brand name is above both their doors. Yet to receive a response on this, but we'll see what this yields.

I've also been exploring another tactic of late. I've been speaking with multiple BMW dealerships about the "prospect" of purchasing a new vehicle, but ONLY if they agree to resolve things with BMW Financial Services. A few dealerships tried to be 'creative' with the figures to try and get the alleged balance cleared, but the vast majority wouldn't touch the situation with a barge pole. One particular dealership made me an offer that, on the surface of it appeared to work. They even went off and did the credit check with BMW Financial Services, which came back approved with no conditions. I thought this was very odd indeed, so I decided to call their bluff and verbally agree on it, provided that BMW Financial Services remove all the falsified missed/late payment entries and close my old agreement. The dealership went off to confirm this. They came back to me the following day saying that BMW Financial Services had come back to them with two new additional approval conditions. They wanted to apply an annual PCP mileage figure that was over double that which was originally approved, and surprise surprise, wanted me to pay the alleged outstanding balance by myself, in full. I responded to the dealership voicing my dissatisfaction, particularly surrounding the fact that they'd made me an offer which they now refused to honour. Despite my continued politeness and professionalism throughout the process, the sales representative with whom I'd been dealing with called me to discuss things and spoke to me in a way that I'd never before experienced in my life to date. The level of rudeness was absolutely disgusting. He actually ended up hanging up on me, telling me "you won't be dealing with me anymore, go somewhere else. Please don't contact me." I now have an additional complaint running with BMW UK alongside the other one.

All fun and games!

[ostell]

I would suggest you start your own thread with your Nissan problem so that it doesn't confuse the BMW thread and get missed

[Lpl87]

Hi, I bought a used nissan qashqai from Evans Halshaw 18 months ago. It is literally falling apart I pay extra on my finance agreement each month for a guarantee in which I was told covers everything apart from serviceable items. LIES!! Sent it in with a few issues had to pay them £50 first for them to tell me what was wrong with it although I already knew that's why I took it back there for them to fix it under the apparent guarantee. They have never given me any sort of list either on what is and isn't covered. They got back to me saying o my a couple of things are covered so that I would get my £50 back. Took them 3 months to refund me! Just failed an mot on the issues I wanted them to fix that has been there since I first bought it. I have had enough now and want to withdraw from the contract. I understand that I will have to pay half of the balance which infuriates me! I have read on here that it should be in good condition for this to happen but it clearly wasn't when I bought it. Where do I stand? Would be grateful for any advise please.

[Dehaw]

I've finally been contacted by a BMWFS 'recover' advisor after my requests for the legal department complaining about my credit file being incorrectly marked.

KurtCrisco I used the content of one of your posts, which I slightly modified, that details the SCOR 2016 guidance since they obviously come back with the usual reply that they are doing it correctly, which of course is untrue.

I've advised them that I do not want a lengthy discussion and that I intend in taking them to court for deformation of character if they do not remove the defaults and mark my account as settled.

I await their response...

I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile referring to the many suicides brought on by this sort of practice ruining peoples lives and contacting the media to run a story on it, they could then follow how I get on, maybe it would bring out some good lawyer to fight the case and of course BMWFS to back down.

[Grahammcm1888]

Hi all

the likelihood is I will be taking BMWFS to a small claims court also. Any help in how best to approach this would really be appreciated. I am guessing I will have to aquire the services of solicitor , I have a good one in mind.

[Dehaw]

Dehaw

Feel free to use the draft LBA though I have completely re-amended it now so that I have a sub-heading on the 'legal framework' setting out the DPA provisions and definition of credit reference agency and then summarising the relevant guidance. I thought that might be a better fit to set the scene rather than trying to interweave the guidance between arguments under the 'basis of the claim' sub-heading. I'll post that version up when its finished so you can all see what it looks like - trying to keep it as simple and less legalese as possible is key.

I'm just really busy at the moment so its taking me longer to sit down and type it all out but I am hoping by end of next week there will be a working LBA for others to use or cherry pick parts of the letter as they deem necessary.

Happy to look over anything if you want to post up earlier but in terms of getting a court date by August this year, I would probably say that's not likely to happen. I always assume it will take at least 6 months before a trial date is confirmed, possibly 4 if things go to plan and the courts are not busy (which is never these days).

Thanks a million, R0b!

I have contacted BMWFS and asked specifically for the contact details of the person that will be dealing with the court action, I did say that it is in connection with the false submissions on my credit file but I have yet to get a reply, they did get back to me the same day asking for my account number but they have not yet responded with any further details.

The only contact information I have is the vehicle logistics advisor but would be best to take this directly to the department that knows about it.

As soon as you end over the revised version I'll happily update it and get it submitted to them asap.

[stuckcluckets]

Dehaw

Feel free to use the draft LBA though I have completely re-amended it now so that I have a sub-heading on the 'legal framework' setting out the DPA provisions and definition of credit reference agency and then summarising the relevant guidance. I thought that might be a better fit to set the scene rather than trying to interweave the guidance between arguments under the 'basis of the claim' sub-heading. I'll post that version up when its finished so you can all see what it looks like - trying to keep it as simple and less legalese as possible is key.

I'm just really busy at the moment so its taking me longer to sit down and type it all out but I am hoping by end of next week there will be a working LBA for others to use or cherry pick parts of the letter as they deem necessary.

Happy to look over anything if you want to post up earlier but in terms of getting a court date by August this year, I would probably say that's not likely to happen. I always assume it will take at least 6 months before a trial date is confirmed, possibly 4 if things go to plan and the courts are not busy (which is never these days).

Thanks for doing this R0b. Once you've finished it, I'm happy to submit this to BMW FS and see what their response is, so please do share.

[R0b]

Dehaw

Feel free to use the draft LBA though I have completely re-amended it now so that I have a sub-heading on the 'legal framework' setting out the DPA provisions and definition of credit reference agency and then summarising the relevant guidance. I thought that might be a better fit to set the scene rather than trying to interweave the guidance between arguments under the 'basis of the claim' sub-heading. I'll post that version up when its finished so you can all see what it looks like - trying to keep it as simple and less legalese as possible is key.

I'm just really busy at the moment so its taking me longer to sit down and type it all out but I am hoping by end of next week there will be a working LBA for others to use or cherry pick parts of the letter as they deem necessary.

Happy to look over anything if you want to post up earlier but in terms of getting a court date by August this year, I would probably say that's not likely to happen. I always assume it will take at least 6 months before a trial date is confirmed, possibly 4 if things go to plan and the courts are not busy (which is never these days).

[Dehaw]

Highly unlikely that you could take this further unless you bring someone else on board such as the media, or if everyone affected refers this to Elizabeth Denham. The only way I see it is to take court action, either BMW will defend it all the way to trial and in which case you have your day in court, otherwise they might try to settle at some point - their starting point will be to defend it. Otherwise, I don't think you are going to go anywhere.

I've started drafting an example letter before action which is loosely based on something I had written to Santander about in relation to collection fees (see attached below). It's not yet complete and needs a little tidying up, but the majority of it is there so you can get a feel for the reasons you would be claiming.

R0b thanks very much for your response, I appreciate the effort and time you spend on this matter to help us. Your letter to me sums up pretty much where we are and the facts of what BMWFS is doing. I'd like to proceed with this, if no one does we will never know the outcome and organisations like BMWFS will continue to ruin the lives of many in an unlawful way.

I'd suspect if I sent this and then took them to court the facts being discussed at court would be their unlawful submissions rather than the disputed invoices, which BMWFS has confirmed that's what they are meaning if they are invoices and they don't form part of the HP agreement then they are fees and charges and thus unclaimable and should not be placed onto a credit agreement when that credit agreement was terminated and BMWFS agreed that under the CCA.

I can't see how any reasonable person can see in favour of BMWFS, can you?

They claim I owe £4400 if they felt that this was a sum they could recover and was worth recovering in court why haven't they bothered to take me to court?

It only costs a few hundred pounds to take anyone to the small claims court and although I don't need the hassle and live in Australia I'll happily pay to do this although I'd need to ensure I get the court hearing in August so that I can attend, unless I get someone to appear for me?

Surely this could be huge for the industry if they either win/lose?

To me they just can't win, reading R0b's LBA it's a clear-cut case that BMWFS is being unreasonable and if going to court with these facts any reasonable person and judge would look down on BMWFS for their bullying tactics, which could ultimately leave some without a home or indeed push them over the edge.

If I add in my content R0b can I ask you to look over it and modify to suit so that it reads like it's come from a lawyer, your writing looks much more legal than my own and I'm guessing if the LBA reads like that it'll make BMWFS site up and take note?

KurtCrisco, no worries, I know how frustrating things are and the time wasted on this has probably outweighed the original claim from BMWFS but in principle, I believe we need to stick to our guns and take these bullies to court and call their bluff.

[R0b]

Rob - thanks for sending this template through. I will have a read through this later. Is this designed for use in a Small Claims Court type scenario, or via a privately instructed solicitor?

The letter can be used for small claims, if you were instructing a solicitor then they would no doubt draft their own LBA. As above, its a rough and ready draft and a few things need tidying up and inserting such as claiming compensation.

There's always a risk going to court on something like this, particularly where there is no clear case law authorities that provides the answer. I think we are all in agreement that what BMW is wrong and they are doing it because they can get away with it. Only a Court can make that decision and agree that what they are doing is unlawful. You'll see from the letter that there are suggestions and/or inferences which indicate that outstanding monies which are made up solely of fees or charges should not be reported on a credit account because it gives a misleading impression to other lenders and doesn't accurately reflect whether you've met the credit repayments under the agreement.

Yes it would cost you money to issue a claim and it would then force BMW's hand to respond and either defend or settle the matter. I would suspect they might threaten you with legal costs if you pursue it and lose but I really can't see a court allowing that because its a moot point and open to interpretation. Legal costs are only recoverable if your conduct is unreasonable.

As this is your dispute, you have to weigh up your options and if it means making a without prejudice offer then that is what you may need to do.