Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

[Naim]

Hi, apologies if this is in the wrong forum? Your advice would be really appreciated.

I have somehow got myself into a mess with a sub-prime car finance lender called PCF (Private & Commercial Finance Group). I have had a poor credit rating for a couple of years due to two CCJ's that have been present on my record.

Due to this, when looking for car finance this year I used a car finance broker to get me a HP agreement for £22k on a vehicle of which he selected PCF. After 3 months I had to buy another car due to major issues wth the current one. i asked for a redemption figure and everything was in order.

The next car I bought was also financed through them, this time on a 5 year HP agreement. Due to my circumstances the rate was high (20% APR) but I accepted that this was the best i was likely to get and agreed to it after asking the broker if there was possibilities to make overpayment's, no massive early redemption etc. It seemed just like the previous agreement I had, which had only charged me 1 months interest to get out of it early. I trade in my car, put £6k in cash down and take the HP for a further £26k.

Ok, so fast forward 6 months. The reason I mentioned the CCJ's was that I have been pursing the claimant for over two years to get them to agree to the judgments being set aside. Finally they agree and I ask the judge to make an order. The order comes through on the 20/09/12 in my favor. Set aside and case dismissed.

I speak to the broker and say look can we get off this high APR now that my credit score has been fixed? he says yes, no problem, just get a settlement figure and we can start looking at it.

I call PCF yesterday and ask for a settlement figure, they tell me that it's is £37,516.71 That's over £10,000 more than I borrowed.

I call the broker back immediately and he says don't worry there is a mistake and that he'll call them and sort it out. I get a phonecall back today saying, ''sorry! you signed an unregulated agreement and they are charging you 5 years interest''.

I am shocked, seriously just dumbfounded that this can happen? I know i am partly to blame here for not picking this up when i looked through the paperwork but it just seems illegal to be able to do this? Even If I keep the car, it's a depreciating asset so i'll be left with that £11.5k to pay on trade in??

Is there anything I can do? I feel like i've just got my life straight with the CCJ's and now this has smashed me in the face.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

Hello and welcome to LB, you are in the right place hun, we can and will help you.

Who is the agreement with and have you asked for a copy of it?

I'm not a HP specialist, but I will put a shout out for you

P

[Naim]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

Hi,

Thank you for your reply!

The agreement is with Private & Commercial Finance Group. I asked for a copy of the finance agreement yesterday, so hopefully it should be with me tomorrow. Should I scan it in an post it on here?

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

if you can, it would be helpful. Please remove all personal details first.

[Naim]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

Will, do. Thanks again

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

Yvw hun.

I have put a shout out for you when I see the person am thinking of, I will PM them.

[Ruby]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

Just to keep in mind when/if the time is right - you might be able to challenge the agreement, regulated or not under the Office of Fair Trading 'Unfair Relationships Act'.

[Naim]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

I've found the agreement. The front page seems to damn me as it states that there is a declaration for exemption relating to businesses (sections 16b and 189(1) and (2) Consumer Act 1974) which states various terms, however like an idiot i skimmed over that as it said ''For Businesses''.

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

PCF BUSINESS FINANCE LIMITED
Company No. 02036087
Used be known as College Credit Limited, they changed their name to
PCF Business Finance Limited on 31/05/2011

College Credit Limited held a CCA licence to conduct

Consumer credit

Consumer hire

Credit brokerage

Credit reference agency

Debt adjusting/counselling

Debt collecting

However this lapsed on 11.01/2007 they never renewed it.
PCF Business Finance Limited have never applied for a CCA licence and therefore do not hold one.
That means they are conducting Consumer Credit Business without a Licence.
Which is an offence under Section 39 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act, your agreement is unlawful and unenforceable.

You can do 1 of three things
1…Ring them up and tell them to give you ALL your money back you have paid plus your deposit plus interest for the FIVE years they were going to charge you for early settlement or

2…You can stop paying and tell them why and say take me to Court then or

3…Ring the OFT up with the information I have given you and ask the what are your options.

I would do No 3 First......But do state names at this moment in time....just the facts.

In any event as from April 2008 the credit limit was removed and ALL consumer credit agreements and HP agreements are now regulated by the CCA ....your agreement does not comply with the CCA Act nor the Consumer Credit Contractt Regulations

Your agreement was made April this year

Sparkie

Don't take this as absolute fact or legal advice in any way just pointers as to the steps you can take under the circumstances

[Naim]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

Thank you. Do you mean do not state names? As in their company?

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

Thank you. Do you mean do not state names? As in their company?

No Naim,

Don't mention any company names for now ...just tell them the background ....you entered into a HP agreement to buy a car on 3rd April this year that they say on the agreement,,,,,, it is unregulated and you have just found out that it must be a regulated one ................you have also found out that the company that financed it has not got any CCA licence.......what can you do about it and tell them all the other facts about the settlement they want etc etc.

Let us know what the OFT says

Sparkie

[Guest]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

Hi

Can I ask, was HP taken out and used on behalf of a business.

From OFT guidelines on exempt agreements

3.14 The Act does not regulate a consumer credit agreement by which the
creditor provides credit exceeding £25,000, or a consumer hire
agreement requiring the hirer to make payments exceeding £25,000,
provided in each case that the agreement is entered into by the debtor
or hirer wholly or predominantly for the purposes of a business carried
on, or intended to be carried on, by him.

D

[Sparkie1723]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

Hi

Can I ask, was HP taken out and used on behalf of a business.

From OFT guidelines on exempt agreements

3.14 The Act does not regulate a consumer credit agreement by which the
creditor provides credit exceeding £25,000, or a consumer hire
agreement requiring the hirer to make payments exceeding £25,000,
provided in each case that the agreement is entered into by the debtor
or hirer wholly or predominantly for the purposes of a business carried
on, or intended to be carried on, by him.

D

Morning D

If you notice Dave there is no business name fiiled in nor address infact most of the information that should be on the form is not there......there is no mention of it being for a business so even if it was I think they would struggle to enforce it......... from what I can see from the information on the agreement it was a private purchase....and that's what matters IMO

Sparkie

[Guest]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

Morin Sparkie
You know me always trying to find the alternative argument.
If this loan/HP was for a business it would indeed be unregulated, it may be that the broker miss representing the OP's position in order to secure the loan and his commission(wouldn't be the first time).

3.15 An agreement is presumed to be wholly or predominantly for business
purposes if it includes a declaration to that effect by the debtor or
hirer, in a prescribed form, unless the creditor or owner knows or has
reasonable cause to suspect that this is not the case. 'Business' is
defined in section 189 of the Act, but a person is not to be treated as
carrying on a particular type of business merely because occasionally
he enters into relevant transactions.34

I think it is best getting more information before jumping to conclusions.

D

[Naim]

Re: Un-regulated Car HP Agreement - Advice needed please - Massive Redemption Figure

Morin Sparkie

You know me always trying to find the alternative argument.
If this loan/HP was for a business it would indeed be unregulated, it may be that the broker miss representing the OP's position in order to secure the loan and his commission(wouldn't be the first time).

3.15 An agreement is presumed to be wholly or predominantly for business
purposes if it includes a declaration to that effect by the debtor or
hirer, in a prescribed form, unless the creditor or owner knows or has
reasonable cause to suspect that this is not the case. 'Business' is
defined in section 189 of the Act, but a person is not to be treated as
carrying on a particular type of business merely because occasionally
he enters into relevant transactions.34

I think it is best getting more information before jumping to conclusions.

D

Hi, So I have managed to speak to the broker specifically about this point. He has said they are primarily a commercial lender who lend to Ltd's and self employed people. He has said that they have not asked for any business accounts or have mentioned the company in any of the documentation. He insists that the loan is with me personally.

So now I have that information i'm going to call the OFT.