Dispute with garage over second hand car

[Sapphire]

Re: Dispute with garage over second hand car

Personally and this is just how I feel by the way, I would return the car, get a refund and go to a garage closer to you to get a car.
But as I say that's just my opinion.

[tuafc]

Re: Dispute with garage over second hand car

I am increasingly inclined to agree with you, however even that doesn't solve everything:

• What about the costs I have incurred (circa £230) during the purchase of the car? He is refusing any expenses payout and I see no reason I should be out of pocket for this whole episode.
• He will simply sell on the car to someone else. While this isn't my problem I do feel I am condoning his actions simply by taking the money and running away.
• I am also not sure the offer of a refund will still be on the table once I tell him I am not driving it back to Sheffield and he will have to come and get it if he wants it.

I am currently thinking that I will give him two options.

1. Pay for the repairs to be carried out at a local independent garage to me, or
2. come and collect the car, giving me a full refund and paying my costs directly incurred.

Does this seem reasonable? Key to this is if he says no, the offer is a refund of purchase price and only if I return the car, where do I stand with enforcing one of my options instead?

[Sapphire]

Re: Dispute with garage over second hand car

I am increasingly inclined to agree with you, however even that doesn't solve everything:

• What about the costs I have incurred (circa £230) during the purchase of the car? He is refusing any expenses payout and I see no reason I should be out of pocket for this whole episode.
• He will simply sell on the car to someone else. While this isn't my problem I do feel I am condoning his actions simply by taking the money and running away.
• I am also not sure the offer of a refund will still be on the table once I tell him I am not driving it back to Sheffield and he will have to come and get it if he wants it.

I am currently thinking that I will give him two options.

1. Pay for the repairs to be carried out at a local independent garage to me, or
2. come and collect the car, giving me a full refund and paying my costs directly incurred.

Does this seem reasonable? Key to this is if he says no, the offer is a refund of purchase price and only if I return the car, where do I stand with enforcing one of my options instead?

Whilst I understand and to a degree agree with you, wouldn't you be better off giving the car back and getting a full refund and going to look for a car that (hopefully) will not cost you good money to get it repaired.
I know its frustrating being out of pocket for travelling up to Sheffield, but thats the chance you take when you buy at a distance.
In fact I've just had a guy come from Bucks to here in Essex to look at my old car, he's given me £100 deposit and is coming back tomorrow with the balance in cash and to collect the car, what if the car hadn't come up to his expectations, would he be able to ask me for travelling expenses ? I think not and besides he might get offended with my reply.
To be honest I truly think that you don't have much of a leg to stand on here, you have just a couple of options
1. Keep it and get it repaired
2. Return it and buy another one

Its really your choice, sorry to say.

[tuafc]

Re: Dispute with garage over second hand car

I understand what you are saying, and had the car been fine I would not begrudge the expenses, however I entered into a contract to buy a car, from a dealer, that was described as being in mint condition. I paid more than I would in a private sale for this very assurance and feel that this should count for something.

If you buy something online you expect to postage, however if it is faulty would you not expect to have the postage refunded when you send it back for a refund?

He willingly misled me with the description and quality item he sold me, why should he break even and me be out of pocket for it? Surely the law is there to protect me in an instance such as this?

[Sapphire]

Re: Dispute with garage over second hand car

Absolutely agree with what you are saying, but I'm not so sure that there is a point of law to cover you in this instance. Hopefully one of our more 'learned' friends will pop along and be able to advise you further on this.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Dispute with garage over second hand car

I am increasingly inclined to agree with you, however even that doesn't solve everything:

• What about the costs I have incurred (circa £230) during the purchase of the car? He is refusing any expenses payout and I see no reason I should be out of pocket for this whole episode.
• He will simply sell on the car to someone else. While this isn't my problem I do feel I am condoning his actions simply by taking the money and running away.
• I am also not sure the offer of a refund will still be on the table once I tell him I am not driving it back to Sheffield and he will have to come and get it if he wants it.

I am currently thinking that I will give him two options.

1. Pay for the repairs to be carried out at a local independent garage to me, or
2. come and collect the car, giving me a full refund and paying my costs directly incurred.

Does this seem reasonable? Key to this is if he says no, the offer is a refund of purchase price and only if I return the car, where do I stand with enforcing one of my options instead?

You have been told to report that car dealing oaf to Consumer Direct (who may forward the information to Sheffield Trading Standards) and to VOSA. Have you done that?

As for the dozy bint to whom you spoke at Consumer Direct, you should have escalated the call to her supervisor as it should have been self-evident that she really had little/no idea of what she was saying. Did she really suppose that it would be reasonable - or even legal - for you to drive a motor car back to Sheffield given that you now know that the said motor car is unroadworthy?

[tuafc]

Re: Dispute with garage over second hand car

I have reported it to Trading Standards and asked that Consumer Direct also refer it on to relevant parties.

I am not sure over the 'unroadworthiness' of the vehicle. It still goes, only it is very difficult to change gear. I asked the mechanic who looked at it if it was still safe to drive and he said it would be for now, when the cyclinder goes completely though (it is twisted) the clutch will no longer work and so needs replacing in the very near future.

I have 'shared intelligence' with VOSA, but again not sure what they can do as feel this is more the car not matching up to its 'mint' billing rather than outright dangerous. Their website talks a lot about safety rather than quality (if that makes sense).

[labman]

Re: Dispute with garage over second hand car

Personally and this is just how I feel by the way, I would return the car, get a refund and go to a garage closer to you to get a car.
But as I say that's just my opinion.

See post #3! Great minds think alike eh? Couldn't be Fools seldom differ could it!

[CleverClogs]

Re: Dispute with garage over second hand car

I have reported it to Trading Standards and asked that Consumer Direct also refer it on to relevant parties.

I am not sure over the 'unroadworthiness' of the vehicle. It still goes, only it is very difficult to change gear. I asked the mechanic who looked at it if it was still safe to drive and he said it would be for now, when the cyclinder goes completely though (it is twisted) the clutch will no longer work and so needs replacing in the very near future.

I have 'shared intelligence' with VOSA, but again not sure what they can do as feel this is more the car not matching up to its 'mint' billing rather than outright dangerous. Their website talks a lot about safety rather than quality (if that makes sense).

As it is over twenty years since I last drove a motor car, can you enlighten me on the correct procedure to stop the forward motion of the motor car in an emergency? It is possible that the procedure, which was then called an 'emergency stop', has been changed over the years, but I seem to recall it involved depressing the pedals for both the brake and the clutch simultaneously.

I also seem to recall that any motor car on which this procedure could not be carried out reliably would not normally be considered fit to be on the road.

Furthermore, I seriously doubt that the vertical orientation of the clutch master cylinder has anything to do with the cause of your problem, for that rather sounds like the sort of flim-flam a mechanic might say after making the usual sound of sucking on his teeth and before presenting you with a bill for parts that were not needed (and which probably were not replaced) and for work that wasn't done.

If the clutch does not engage correctly or it is slipping, it either needs to be adjusted or the clutch plates may need to be replaced; if the clutch is difficult to disengage, either the clutch cable needs to be adjusted or, in the case of a hydraulic clutch, the hydraulic fluid may need to be changed and/or bled, as there may be an air bubble in it.

[teaboy2]

Re: Dispute with garage over second hand car

Great link, thanks.

I guess this answers the question:

Faulty goods, no acceptance

If the item does not conform to contract (is faulty) for any of the reasons mentioned previously, and the customer has not accepted the goods, the law says the customer is entitled to

• reject the goods and claim a full refund, or
• request a repair or replacement if that is the customer's preferred option.

As the retailer, you can offer a repair, a replacement or a credit note, but you cannot insist on any one of these. It is the customer's right to receive a full refund in these circumstances.


Where a customer is entitled to a full refund because they have not accepted the goods but have agreed that you may repair or replace the goods, they can still claim a full refund if the repair or replacement is

• taking an unreasonable time, or
• causing an unreasonable inconvenience, or
• if the repair or replacement is not satisfactory when they receive it.

Faulty goods that have been accepted
If the item does not conform to contract (is faulty) for any of the reasons outlined and the customer has accepted the goods, the law says the customer is entitled to claim a repair or replacement of the goods in the first instance.

If either a repair or replacement is not possible, or the cost is greater than the value of the item (disproportionately costly), or the customer claims either option is taking an unreasonable amount of time or is causing unreasonable inconvenience, the customer is then entitled to

• keep the goods and claim a price reduction from the retailer to compensate them for the fault in the goods - this would be the difference between the value of the product in perfect condition and the value of the product in the faulty condition, or
• return the goods and rescind the contract. This would mean that the customer returns the goods and you provide a partial refund, calculated to reflect the benefit the customer has received from the product.

Where a customer is entitled to repair or replacement because they have accepted the goods, they can claim price reduction or partial refund if the repair or replacement is

• taking an unreasonable time, or
• causing an unreasonable inconvenience, or
• if the repair or replacement is not satisfactory when they receive it.

Would I be classed as having accepted the car by paying for it and driving it away, or does the fact I have not conducted a thorough inspection up until it went to the local garage mean I have not yet had chance to accept it? Either way it seems the power is with me to chose a repair ahead of a refund.

Tuafc

You actually answered your own question with the above post as to what your rights are.

Also i think people are forgetting about the bit where the seller misrepresented the condition of the car and which is an act of misrepresentation of contract. So yes it is upto you if you want the seller to refund or repair, either way it is up to you and not the seller.

Plus having worked in the motor trade (though was 10 years ago) i can tell you that a car with a clutch that is not preforming properly, is driveable but it is not safe to drive becuase 1. you can easily loose control of the car whilst struggling to change gear. And 2, if the clutch goes completely and/or the gears jam you can spin out into on coming traffic, or it could cause the engine to over rev and you could end up with a piston shooting up through the engine block and out through the bonnet.

Put it this way it would not pass the MOT and if it won't pass an MOT then it is not road worthy and/or safe to be driving on the road.

[charitynjw]

Re: Dispute with garage over second hand car

& don't forget

Consequential loss

If a customer suffers personally because of a problem with an item, they may be able to claim damages (money to make up for it). This is called consequential loss. One example would be if a customer had to pay out more money (perhaps to hire another item) because of a faulty item that you sold them.

A more serious example would be if they suffered injury or damage because of a faulty item.

A customer who claimed damages for consequential loss would be expected to have tried to resolve the issue with the retailer first.

Claims for consequential loss do not normally cover distress, inconvenience or disappointment.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advic.../sogaexplained

Perhaps not for the initial trip to buy the vehicle, but for subsequent expense due to the misrepresentation.

[labman]

Re: Dispute with garage over second hand car

Or if the car is unsafe to drive, would it pay for having it transported back to Sheffield?