Faulty car from independent dealer help

[Leetommy14]

Hi,

My partner bought a used Audi A1 from an independent dealer. All looked fine but a few squeaks and creaks caused us to take it to be looked at. Dealer asked for it to be checked over by a garage.

A 'knowledgeable' friends initially found that the radiator was lose, gearbox leaking oil, and some poor repairs were hiding a previous accident. We took it to an independent garage following this who have said they wouldn't be happy to drive the car as the work done to hide the damage is clearly amateur, and that they can see it was off the road for 12 months before we bought it. There's no record of a CAT S or N.

The location of the repair, along with the lose radiator, lose front bumper and leaking gearbox, led him to advise us to ask for a refund, but he's not willing to put his name to a report for fear of any repercussions from the nearby dealer.

I am going to ask the dealer for a refund, but previous conversation with them hasn't inspired confidence they'll be amenable to this, so I want to go in knowing my rights. I was hoping to gain an advantage with this by coming to you lovely people first.

I asked the RAC if they'd do a full inspection so I had more 'clout' but they said their reports can't be used in court if needed, not can he say that the repair was done prior to purchase.

Any advice would be very gratefully received.

[atticus]

Date of purchase?

How paid - cash, credit card, finance? Details please.

[Leetommy14]

Apologies, purchases was just under 3 months ago, by a matter of days I believe. We paid with a credit card, sale included part ex of previous car.

[atticus]

That is helpful.

As you bought the car within the last 6 months (but more than 30 days ago), you are entitled to insist on repair or replacement: section 23 Consumer Rights Act 2015.

If the dealer does not accept this, then assuming that the price of the car was more than £100 and less than £30,000 you can bring a claim against the credit card company under s75 Consumer Credit Act 1974. I think it possible that the dealer will not want you to do this, as it may have repercussions for the dealer elsewhere. This can make the threat of a s75 claim a strong negotiating tool.

Other posters may have further advice for you, so do please check back.

[Leetommy14]

Thank you, that is very helpful. Where do you think I would stand if I took it back now and the garage were to say sorry but we think you've caused all this damage? We've had discussions prior so they are aware of it, but there's no hard copy of acknowledgement anywhere do far.

[atticus]

You would need to be able to refute that assertion. Your friend not being enough of a friend doesn't help: would he at least help you by speaking to this dealer and saying what he found?

[Pezza54]

If the dealer refuses to repair or replace the car with another suitable car, or agrees to repair the car but fails to do so within a reasonable time, you have the legal right to reject the car for a refund. The dealer can make a deduction on the refund for usage which is normally based on a rate per mile x miles driven
If you end up making a claim/complaint with your credit card company, you will need a qualified auto-engineer's report and reference to the relevant clauses in CRA 2015

[Leetommy14]

So I'd probably need to find a garage willing to put their name to an inspection stating they belive the damage to be of x amount of time ago to cover all bases and add some weight to my case.

Thanks for the advice, it's very much appreciated.

[Leetommy14]

Apologies, I didn't see your second reply before posting.

[Leetommy14]

A quick follow up after visiting the garage -

The dealer has presented the following options.

Firstly I can go to a garage that would quote for all the works doing, and if it is a reasonable quote they would pay for the works. I asked them to qualify 'reasonable', they said around £1000. I told them I was given a ball park figure of 2k for just one one of the repair jobs alone out of roughly eight that would need doing. They said to get a few quotes to compare, and then they want to take it to their own garage to see what their quote would be. I have doubts around their own garages if choice as one looked at it last week and dismissed it as being in perfect working order after taking it around the block.

Secondly, he's offered to swap the car for another from his fleet. He's offered to the value of 5k. We paid 5.5k for the car just under two months ago. He's arguing the case of wear and tear which I understand is fair, but I don't really know what would be a fair number to put on this.

I pointed out that he needs to either fully fix the vehicle or refund it if he refuses to do so due to the cost. I could go down the longer winded route of allowing them to use their own garage then getting it assessed after, but we'd be without a car in that time frame, and there's the doubts around the quality of their chosen garage's standards, and the inevitable drawn out follow ups if it's not up to scratch.

It's my partner's car and she really does love it and would ideally like to keep it, but given that we drive our kids around in it and that we wouldn't entirely trust their work, I think we'd be more inclined to go for an exchange.

I think I have three questions really, if anyone would like to offer their thoughts.

Firstly, does 5k against a 5.5k sale seem fair after less than three months use?

Secondly, if it did come to pushing for a refund, I understand some discount can be taken for mileage as you stated, but is there a rough guide to a fair amount?

Thirdly, I paid on credit card as mentioned, but the balance was less than the value as we part ex'd. I understand that if you pay a portion of any payment via credit card the the whole sale is covered under section 75 Would section 75 cover me for the full 5.5 as some of it was covered by another vehicle, or just the amount after part ex?



Thanks again for any advice.

[Pezza54]

IMO the car sounds beyond economic repair with all its faults including poor damage repair.

If it was me I would see what cars the dealer has available to exchange, if any are suitable, and if any suitable ones cost a bit more than £5k, negotiate with the dealer. If you decide on this route make sure you obtain an independant inspection report

With a s75 claim the credit card company will want to see that you have given the dealer a chance to repair the car and have considered possible replacement cars You are not happy about the dealer's garage undertaking the repairs and it seems most unlikely the dealer will pay the sort of money you have been quoted for repair work

A court claim is another option but you must still give the dealer a chance to repair or replace. It will cost more and take longer than a s75 claim. You should get court fees back if you win your case

If' in the unlikely event the dealer accepts rejection without a chance to repair, he would be entitled to return your part exchange car if he still has it.

What is the mileage on the clock and how many miles have you driven in the audi?

[DE DOGS]

I would accept the replacement as the time you take Court action it will cost that, as advised by Pezza54 try and negotiate a better deal, but as I pointed out, accept the dealer has made a reasonable offer, but this time before you commit, get a reputable engineer to do a full inspection, I prefer the AA but that is your choice.

[Leetommy14]

Hi all,

Thanks for all the prior advice. There have been some advancements, I was wondering if anyone may be able offer some insights/advice.

I got a couple of garages to look at the car. Both spotted faults within seconds that I never would have seen. Concealed poor welds, covered filler, misaligned bodywork etc. Both said they didn't want to put their name to a report but laughed off the option of even considering the cost of repairing to standard.

I went back to the dealer with this info, had a bit of back and forth. One fella immediately told me to take them to court but was swiftly asked to leave by the man that originally sold it to us. We finally agreed on a refund minus £500 for the three months we'd had use. Whether this was fair or not I'm not sure as I'm don't know the going rate, but it left a 5k refund and I just wanted it over with.

Here's where the trouble starts and the advice is needed.

The dealer said the only way he can do a refund is to raise funds. He asked us to leave the car with him for seven days so he can repair to sellable standards to he could put it up for sale us soon as he refunded us. He said without that he couldn't offer a refund and we'd have to go down the court route. Perhaps foolishly we agreed, but we did get him to write it on letterheaded paper as proof. We didn't sign anything over, the car is still our property.

I'll bullet point the rest to try to save time, I appreciate this is lengthy.

- Day seven was a Sunday, day eight a bank holiday so I gave them the benefit of the doubt.
- No contact on day nine so I called the dealer. Assured money in the bank by the end of the day. This didn't happen.
- No call from dealer on day 10, so again I called them. Told it would be the end of the day, but he could only do £4.5k today and £500 the following day. Feeling like I'd no other option, I agreed. He said another fella had to do the transfer and it was his day off, but don't worry it'd be done. My partner, who's car it as, went to the dealer as its only down the road, and let him know how frustrated and angry she was, that this isn't good enough, that she's going to go to solicitors and leave appropriate reviews etc, all well within her rights.
- Day 11, today. I had to call again, he said he'd ring me straight back. An hour later I got a call from the business owner who apparently had no prior knowledge of the agreed refund. He started very overpowering telling me that he will accommodate the refund but under no circumstances should my partner come back to his forecourt displaying 'threatening behaviour' or the refund will be off the table and we can go down the court route, which he states he's confident he'd win.
- He confirmed he would offer the refund plus £200 for the inconvenience, but it would take another eight days for him to get the funds. I told him I want an email confirming this. He said he would provide that, but in exchange he wanted me to put something in writing to assure him that if he does the refund that there will be no negative reviews, no negative 'press', no solicitors and the whole thing is put to bed.

So we've been promised this money over and over with nothing forthcoming, with the change today being the owner becoming involved with the same promise plus £200.

I'm worried, if not scared, to say no as the court option is just so risky. We need a car, it's costing money to cover other options for commuting, taking kids to nursery etc. There's also the chance we may lose, the need for independent reviews etc.

Does anyone know what we can do in a situation like this? He may well follow through on the refund, but the track history isn't promising. Is there something I can potentially put in writing that will kick their arses into gear? Has their conduct so far put me in a stronger position legally?

I just feel so lost and helpless. Can anyone advise?

Many thanks

[Pezza54]

Start a S75 claim with your credit card company. As Atticus said in post 4 there may be serious repercussions for the dealer

[Leetommy14]

Thanks Pezza54. With an S75, would it cover me just for the caah/credit card amount, or would it be the full value of the car we covered? Ie if we paid 4k on card and part ex'd another car for 1k, should the S75 cover 4k or 5k?

The email he promised last night never materialised either, surprise surprise!

Thanks again