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Hi, this is long, sorry, but I know all the details are needed!
In summary: I’m stuck on what to do next regarding being misold a car that has basically been written off due to amount of faults. They are refusing a refund/final rejection.
To make things more complicated the garage is falsely claiming I’ve damaged their courtesy car and is threatening to use that against me. Unsure if they could win, but probably? I 100% did not damage the car but its just my word unfortunately (details below).
I would like to know thoughts on if it is worth going to court (I’ve listed my worries below) for small claims, even if just for damages.
Otherwise I think my only other option is to dump the car on We Buy Any Car or something and use what little savings I have left to buy a cheap run around for meantime.
Timeline:
28/7/2023 – Bought the car for £4990 it was described as excellent and features listed. Few previous owners that only used it for a runaround and only 27k mileage for its age (56 plate) so thought it would be a good find.
They stated on their adverts and website that every car is thoroughly checked by qualified technicians before sale. It passed an MOT in June 2023 with no issues flagged at all apparently (have their copy of the MOT certificate)
Note as this is used against me later – driving is a major part of my job and I do a lot of miles, hence wanting a low mileage car.
I have a photo of the back bumper not being completely flush but they said it was fine.
On the test drive there was a squeaking noise which I and my friend both immediately asked about but the garage owner and mechanic insisted it was “wheel dust” as the car was hardly ever driven, as shown by mileage. And it would soon disappear. (These guys since problems started, are saying I never said anything on the test drive and was entirely happy).
Also (detail which may matter, not sure?) I have no way of proving this I know, but their warranty only covered personal use, and as I used my car for business and personal use the owner wrote me a note in pencil to say he agreed to this and to make the warranty cover it. He put this in the folder of paperwork. My friend saw this also. However, on opening the folder of paperwork later it had gone.
29/7/2023 to 31/08/2023
After buying the car, it became apparent within two weeks that the tracking was badly off, car was crabbing and got worse. Air conditioning didn’t work.
Mid August the bumper also half fell off on the motorway, dragging along the road.
Also I had booked it in with my local, trusted regular garage to have it checked after buying, but due to a unlucky delay due to sudden bad staff illness, it didn’t end up being looked at until mid August.
Garage found right away that (I have a long report but I’ll put main points):
The nearside track rod end nut was loose and could move by hand
Tracking very badly off on every wheel.
“Rear toe non adjustable – previous rear end impact?”
31/08/2023
The Garage I bought car from first fobbed me off until the warranty period had passed.
Then upon that, they tried arguing with me about repairing or paying for repairs (they claimed no issues were brought up on test drive, therefore I am lying. And then trying to wriggle out claiming warranty only covered engine and it had expired now anyway and wasn’t for business use).
Managed to make him very reluctantly accept to attempt repairs after Citizens Advice told me what to say to him (car not as described/satisfactory etc, Consumer Rights Act and so on) and its best to let them have a chance of putting the vehicle right.
They also claimed my local garage are cowboys making up lies to get work. So Citizens Advice told me to get two other garage assessments on the issues raised, which I did, which they still scoffed at.
I wanted them to pay for a hire car (I’m self employed so I rely on a car or no work for me) but they absolutely insisted on dropping me a courtesy car which I eventually agreed to (kicking myself now, this is where they got me!)
05/09/2023 to 08/9/2023
Garage finally made it to collect car where they did repairs of issues noted. However, they didn’t fix tracking properly. As advised by citizens advice I had their repairs assessed and all three garages noted tracking still off.
I paid for tracking to be done again myself for £70 two weeks later.
Later on (details below) in October, Toyota Garage after a vehicle healthcheck, verbally told me their repairs were “mostly sloppy and rushed”
The staff member who dropped car back and collected it was insulting about the situation, and was complaining they had to order genuine parts, otherwise I’d moan. He was also late collecting and dropping off by hours so I missed jobs, and kept saying I didn’t know what I was doing/other garages are liars etc. This was all verbal though so I guess no proof?
Also 08/11/2023
The courtesy car issue – the garage dropped me a battered and bumped up, slightly grubby Citroen. The sheet of paper for the courtesy car they gave me was just a blank black and white print out, the reg was on it and the date. And I didn’t sign it. The diagram of the car showing any marks was blank.
I’m pretty sure I only signed another form agreeing for them to take away my own vehicle. But as the staff member took this with him I don’t have it to check/post.
Also if it matters, the Citroen, despite being used as courtesy car, was a car listed for sale on their website, again claimed as excellent condition. Photos on that didn’t show the state of it on 8th September.
The staff member on collecting it back came to my door, and immediately confronted me saying he had looked at the car and I “had crashed it all down one side” exact quote. He phoned the garage owner to tell him this.
When I obviously totally denied this and asked to see where this so-called big crash damage was, it ended up being a light 2cm scratch on a bit of paintwork at the back. I have a photo but you have to zoom in loads obviously! I’m no expert but I expect a bit of polishing would have removed it.
At this point staff member said (verbal not recorded unfortunately so he is denying it) that the previous knocks and scrapes and a large dent were not recorded on the form but they were “old” so they “couldn’t say that was me”. But he insisted I’ve crashed it.
They said if I bother them again they would claim against me for this vague, extensive damage I did! Totally false claim!
I know timestamps can be edited so I’m concerned they will just take photos of the battered car and claim those were me after all, if it comes to it.
I stupidly only took two poor photos of the courtesy car when I got it, but it was dark and doesn’t show detail or whole car, so pretty useless. I have lots of clearer, quality pics of the scratch and around the rest of the battered car afterwards (as the staff member was making those claims on collection though).
30/10/2023
The side indicator lights both started to fall out, loose
15/11/2023
Car making dodgy noises and electric key failed. Local garage said to go to Toyota garage as key would need to be from them.
They did a health check for the dodgy noises while I was there, and found:
Tracking is badly out again
Brake fluid test failed (and three of the things on the wheels are frozen solid so would break and cost lots if they tried to remove them to replace brake fluid, they could only work on one that they could remove – apologies I’m not a mechanic but hope this makes sense).
Auxiliary belt and links worn need replacing/work
Wishbone brushes are badly deteriorated/failing
Brake pads need replacing
As mentioned due to my work, I drive a lot. I had done 8000 miles roughly at this point. However, I’ve heard the wishbone parts fail at 40 to 60k miles so surely that part isn’t caused by me and my mileage? Not sure about the rest to be honest.
I haven’t paid for an engineers report for more detail yet as waiting to see if worth the cost.
As you’ll see in garage’s response, they are focusing on blaming me due to my mileage, age of the car.
Also because the coolant level was low (however car has spent more time in multiple garages than any other car I’ve owned and surely one would have seen that!) and also my tyre was sliced by a vandal that morning (joys of my neighbourhood, spate of car attacks that month) but they’re saying a cut tyre shows I don’t take care of my car.
Toyota had to note the stabbed tyre in report but of course this was changed right away).
I’m really upset as I spend £1200 a year in servicing my cars alone, and have reminders on my phone to check all my levels monthly. I drive carefully etc.
I used a law clinic where students help for free and they wrote to the garage for me to exercise my final right to reject.
I’ll post garages response in a comment as this is already long! But they refused, putting it all back on me basically. And also the courtesy car issue has reappeared, ad they promised, if I go to court.
If I go to court for refund (and also damages too)?
I have a couple of friends who have had legal issues before and one warned me even if I win:
Other friend thinks it’s worth looking into. Other reviews he has screenshots of have said similar to me (dodgy, faulty cars) but the garage seems to have these removed quite quickly. And he thinks they’re trying to intimidate me.
Thanks for reading this massive essay.
Will post garages response letter after this
In summary: I’m stuck on what to do next regarding being misold a car that has basically been written off due to amount of faults. They are refusing a refund/final rejection.
To make things more complicated the garage is falsely claiming I’ve damaged their courtesy car and is threatening to use that against me. Unsure if they could win, but probably? I 100% did not damage the car but its just my word unfortunately (details below).
I would like to know thoughts on if it is worth going to court (I’ve listed my worries below) for small claims, even if just for damages.
Otherwise I think my only other option is to dump the car on We Buy Any Car or something and use what little savings I have left to buy a cheap run around for meantime.
Timeline:
28/7/2023 – Bought the car for £4990 it was described as excellent and features listed. Few previous owners that only used it for a runaround and only 27k mileage for its age (56 plate) so thought it would be a good find.
They stated on their adverts and website that every car is thoroughly checked by qualified technicians before sale. It passed an MOT in June 2023 with no issues flagged at all apparently (have their copy of the MOT certificate)
Note as this is used against me later – driving is a major part of my job and I do a lot of miles, hence wanting a low mileage car.
I have a photo of the back bumper not being completely flush but they said it was fine.
On the test drive there was a squeaking noise which I and my friend both immediately asked about but the garage owner and mechanic insisted it was “wheel dust” as the car was hardly ever driven, as shown by mileage. And it would soon disappear. (These guys since problems started, are saying I never said anything on the test drive and was entirely happy).
Also (detail which may matter, not sure?) I have no way of proving this I know, but their warranty only covered personal use, and as I used my car for business and personal use the owner wrote me a note in pencil to say he agreed to this and to make the warranty cover it. He put this in the folder of paperwork. My friend saw this also. However, on opening the folder of paperwork later it had gone.
29/7/2023 to 31/08/2023
After buying the car, it became apparent within two weeks that the tracking was badly off, car was crabbing and got worse. Air conditioning didn’t work.
Mid August the bumper also half fell off on the motorway, dragging along the road.
Also I had booked it in with my local, trusted regular garage to have it checked after buying, but due to a unlucky delay due to sudden bad staff illness, it didn’t end up being looked at until mid August.
Garage found right away that (I have a long report but I’ll put main points):
The nearside track rod end nut was loose and could move by hand
Tracking very badly off on every wheel.
“Rear toe non adjustable – previous rear end impact?”
31/08/2023
The Garage I bought car from first fobbed me off until the warranty period had passed.
Then upon that, they tried arguing with me about repairing or paying for repairs (they claimed no issues were brought up on test drive, therefore I am lying. And then trying to wriggle out claiming warranty only covered engine and it had expired now anyway and wasn’t for business use).
Managed to make him very reluctantly accept to attempt repairs after Citizens Advice told me what to say to him (car not as described/satisfactory etc, Consumer Rights Act and so on) and its best to let them have a chance of putting the vehicle right.
They also claimed my local garage are cowboys making up lies to get work. So Citizens Advice told me to get two other garage assessments on the issues raised, which I did, which they still scoffed at.
I wanted them to pay for a hire car (I’m self employed so I rely on a car or no work for me) but they absolutely insisted on dropping me a courtesy car which I eventually agreed to (kicking myself now, this is where they got me!)
05/09/2023 to 08/9/2023
Garage finally made it to collect car where they did repairs of issues noted. However, they didn’t fix tracking properly. As advised by citizens advice I had their repairs assessed and all three garages noted tracking still off.
I paid for tracking to be done again myself for £70 two weeks later.
Later on (details below) in October, Toyota Garage after a vehicle healthcheck, verbally told me their repairs were “mostly sloppy and rushed”
The staff member who dropped car back and collected it was insulting about the situation, and was complaining they had to order genuine parts, otherwise I’d moan. He was also late collecting and dropping off by hours so I missed jobs, and kept saying I didn’t know what I was doing/other garages are liars etc. This was all verbal though so I guess no proof?
Also 08/11/2023
The courtesy car issue – the garage dropped me a battered and bumped up, slightly grubby Citroen. The sheet of paper for the courtesy car they gave me was just a blank black and white print out, the reg was on it and the date. And I didn’t sign it. The diagram of the car showing any marks was blank.
I’m pretty sure I only signed another form agreeing for them to take away my own vehicle. But as the staff member took this with him I don’t have it to check/post.
Also if it matters, the Citroen, despite being used as courtesy car, was a car listed for sale on their website, again claimed as excellent condition. Photos on that didn’t show the state of it on 8th September.
The staff member on collecting it back came to my door, and immediately confronted me saying he had looked at the car and I “had crashed it all down one side” exact quote. He phoned the garage owner to tell him this.
When I obviously totally denied this and asked to see where this so-called big crash damage was, it ended up being a light 2cm scratch on a bit of paintwork at the back. I have a photo but you have to zoom in loads obviously! I’m no expert but I expect a bit of polishing would have removed it.
At this point staff member said (verbal not recorded unfortunately so he is denying it) that the previous knocks and scrapes and a large dent were not recorded on the form but they were “old” so they “couldn’t say that was me”. But he insisted I’ve crashed it.
They said if I bother them again they would claim against me for this vague, extensive damage I did! Totally false claim!
I know timestamps can be edited so I’m concerned they will just take photos of the battered car and claim those were me after all, if it comes to it.
I stupidly only took two poor photos of the courtesy car when I got it, but it was dark and doesn’t show detail or whole car, so pretty useless. I have lots of clearer, quality pics of the scratch and around the rest of the battered car afterwards (as the staff member was making those claims on collection though).
30/10/2023
The side indicator lights both started to fall out, loose
15/11/2023
Car making dodgy noises and electric key failed. Local garage said to go to Toyota garage as key would need to be from them.
They did a health check for the dodgy noises while I was there, and found:
Tracking is badly out again
Brake fluid test failed (and three of the things on the wheels are frozen solid so would break and cost lots if they tried to remove them to replace brake fluid, they could only work on one that they could remove – apologies I’m not a mechanic but hope this makes sense).
Auxiliary belt and links worn need replacing/work
Wishbone brushes are badly deteriorated/failing
Brake pads need replacing
As mentioned due to my work, I drive a lot. I had done 8000 miles roughly at this point. However, I’ve heard the wishbone parts fail at 40 to 60k miles so surely that part isn’t caused by me and my mileage? Not sure about the rest to be honest.
I haven’t paid for an engineers report for more detail yet as waiting to see if worth the cost.
As you’ll see in garage’s response, they are focusing on blaming me due to my mileage, age of the car.
Also because the coolant level was low (however car has spent more time in multiple garages than any other car I’ve owned and surely one would have seen that!) and also my tyre was sliced by a vandal that morning (joys of my neighbourhood, spate of car attacks that month) but they’re saying a cut tyre shows I don’t take care of my car.
Toyota had to note the stabbed tyre in report but of course this was changed right away).
I’m really upset as I spend £1200 a year in servicing my cars alone, and have reminders on my phone to check all my levels monthly. I drive carefully etc.
I used a law clinic where students help for free and they wrote to the garage for me to exercise my final right to reject.
I’ll post garages response in a comment as this is already long! But they refused, putting it all back on me basically. And also the courtesy car issue has reappeared, ad they promised, if I go to court.
If I go to court for refund (and also damages too)?
I have a couple of friends who have had legal issues before and one warned me even if I win:
- They can reduce my refund by 25p a mile. So I may only end up with something like £2k for the car anyway?
- They can just end their company (limited) and refuse to pay and that’ll be stress chasing them, or may not be paid at all. Plus I would have my court costs on top of a rubbish refund?
Other friend thinks it’s worth looking into. Other reviews he has screenshots of have said similar to me (dodgy, faulty cars) but the garage seems to have these removed quite quickly. And he thinks they’re trying to intimidate me.
Thanks for reading this massive essay.
Will post garages response letter after this
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