Voluntary termination - Black Horse Finance

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So today I contact Black horse finance (BHF) for an email address so I could VT a car I'm just over half way through paying. Having spoken to them over the phone they were very rude and obstructive refusing to provide me with an email address insisting that I need to fill in their paperwork and not the one found here.*

BHF then told me I needed to pay £1400 for 'insurances' which I never knew I had (they claim this is some sort of warranty which is news to me). So far I've paid a total of*8,489.79 on a £10,700 car (APR was 10.9% I believe). The agreement was for £275 a month plus £500 deposit and I am just at the half way mark now with 2 and a half years to go.*

On top of this BHF insisted I would have to pay the £75 collection fee and continue making monthly payments until they have dealt with the paperwork at their end. I've stuck to my guns so far and told them that isn't going to happen but any advice / moral support would be great at this time!

It's only the 'insurances' side of things which are concerning me at the minute, anybody got any advice?*

Thanks in advance,*
*

[Amethyst]

Do you have a copy of the agreement and other documents from when you purchased the car?

What is the total amount payable under the agreement ? was it a 5 year term ? total payable around £16k? It should somewhere in the agreement state tthe amounts for half/third etc payments.

The insurances ( GAP maybe?) should be listed separately on the agreement.

[ScrewLoose]

OK so I've just got home from work, the total cost of the car was £10,896.39 with the cost of the interest over the 5 years being £3146.21.this somehow totals a total amount payable of £14,042.60

Under this I've found their sneaky "insurances" which seems to be warranty (£1595) plus 'cosmetic protection' at £699. I genuinely had no idea regarding either of these which were promised as "standard" features and have certainly never made a claim on either!

By my maths this adds up to £16,336.60 so I would still be over the 50% threshold?

Thanks in advance,*

[Amethyst]

Any chance you can do a picture of the agreement ( just cover your personal details )

VT is only on the £14k figure - so you're well over.

The insurances are separate and will still want settling and then any rebate calculated. It sounds like you weren't aware of these insurances being added though which is concerning - you were told warranty etc was included in the price of the car ? Your agreement should show if any interest had been applied to those amounts and what period of cover there was.

once you have the agreement posted up I'll tag R0b to have a look. Have a read around the other Blackhorse threads too. Your VT process shouldn't be affected by the insurances tho.*

Any excess mileage clauses / limits on mileage you can see on the agreement that might cause issues ?

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Hopefully this has uploaded?*

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Having problems uploading the image on here (me being thick no doubt!) however it's on this link*https://ibb.co/1GTHNQy

Thanks again for the help!*

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Scrap the above: this one*https://ibb.co/SdQtrmz

[R0b]

Let's just break this down:

Having spoken to them over the phone they were very rude and obstructive refusing to provide me with an email address insisting that I need to fill in their paperwork and not the one found here.

You don't need an email address but obviously having one is easier for records purposes but it's not the only way. If you can't find an email address then you can send it to them by post but make sure it is done by signed delivery so you can verify it was received. The address will be the one listed on the agreement and you are absolutely under no obligation to sign their paperwork to give legal effect to the VT.

BHF then told me I needed to pay £1400 for 'insurances' which I never knew I had (they claim this is some sort of warranty which is news to me).

As Ame already said, the insurance and HP arrangement ought to be treated as separate contracts at all times. I am of the opinion that, exercising your VT right to terminate the HP contract should not have any effect on the insurance contract; they are not mutually exclusive where one contract is depending on the other. To give you an example, if you have a broadband contract and a TV contract with Sky, you can terminate theTV contract and continue to keep paying for the broadband contract.

By treating the insurance contract as terminated, bearing in mind the VT letter says you are terminating the HP agreement (not the insurance), then to my mind they are in fundamental breach of contract because they are accelerating payment i.e. forced to pay back the full amount earlier than expected when the contract says you agree to pay X per month.

If you feel that the insurance products were added without your knowledge, do you have any proof to back that up e.g. did you have anyone there who could vouch for you that there was no discussion about insurance products, or what about the pre-contract information given to you, did that say anywhere about the insurance? If you don't have evidence, this is really a he said she said situation and will be difficult to argue.

On top of this BHF insisted I would have to pay the £75 collection fee and continue making monthly payments until they have dealt with the paperwork at their end. I've stuck to my guns so far and told them that isn't going to happen but any advice / moral support would be great at this time!

Stick to your guns on this, especially where Blackhorse are suggesting that you continue to make the payments until they have completed their paperwork. What utter nonesense and tripe, ask them the legal basis for that requirement and can they point it out in the Consumer Credit Act that says voluntary termination is conditional opon continuing to make the payments. In doing that, it defeats the very object of VT which says your only liable to meet 50% of the total price. Of course put the question in writing and I would expect them to either completely ignore the question or suddenly back track on that position. I am pretty certain that they've tried that argument before and the Financial Ombudsman has called them out on it and disagreed.

[ScrewLoose]

Hi R0B, thanks for taking the time for your very detailed reply!*

Unfortunately when I bought the car I was with my ex partner and that didn't end well to say the least so I've no hope of relying on her for that. What is your advice regarding the insurance side? I've got confirmation that they received the VT paperwork which is the notice I found on here, and I've cancelled the direct debit (payment was due to be taken out today). I've also sent off my V5c to retain my personalised plate as it couldn't be completed online so that BHF can't rob me of that too.*

I'm not sure how i can ever prove that I wasn't aware of the warranty and (£600!!!) paint protection, but why should I have to pay for warranty on a vehicle I won't even have and never even knew I had! There is nothing in the welcome pack about it, only on the BHF paperwork I've sent above.

Thanks again for any advice you can offer

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https://ibb.co/TqcpHg5
https://ibb.co/s6z1qSn


Today I received the above angry letter, clearly they have not accepted the initial letter I sent as a VT on the 6th of January, they are also making demands for a significant lump of cash which I again guess to be these mysterious "insurances". The letter also demands that I pay for collection and that I continue to make installments until their car is collected!

I terminated the agreement before this month's installment and have proof of postage for that, I then cancelled my direct debit and now they are threatening that if I do not pay my monthly. Installment plus the £1542.93 then I will have my credit file endorsed.

Where do I go from here?*

[R0b]

What do you want to do?

You can either agree to pay up or reject their letter and tell them where to go and if they even think about marking your credit file then you will slap them with a claim for breach of data protection laws by failing to ensure data is accurate and up to date. Of course you need to be prepared to go through with it, or you can alternatively try and take it to the Financial Ombudsman but they may or may not agree with you.

I can't seem to open the links but will try have a look at their response. If you are willing to take a risk and defend yourself on this then I can look at formulating an example response as a starting point, but I won't waste my time if you then decide to agree to pay them.

Like I tell everyone on here, you are generally talking to low level employees who have no legal knowledge at all and are simply there to get the money out of you. It's only when the matter goes to the finance company's legal team do they start to recognise their failings.

Either way, I'm always looking to update the VT guide with real life examples so if I can use you as a case study that would be appreciated.

[R0b]

I've just opened the links and can see it refers to a 2nd Schedule. Is this the fees for the insurances or something else?*

The point about you not having met half the total price and marking your credit file is both misleading and false in my view. Their letter clearly states that the half value is £7,021.30 and the total amount paid is £7,044.22 so you have met the halfway point for the HP.*

[ScrewLoose]

Hi Rob, I'm willing to carry it out all the way so any advice or help I can get would be greatly appreciated, if you want I'm happy to email you all of the documents I have and then a plan can be formulated from there?*

I'm not willing to bow to their demands but I'm just concerned by the threats of defaults etc especially when I'm saving for a mortgage (albeit in the years rather than near future)*

I'm just after the best angles of attack and the moral support as much as anything I think.*

Thanks again,*

[R0b]

If you want to email the documents you can send them to admin@legalbeagles.info and I'll tag Amethystas she will pick them up and can redact them before uploading on here.

Would need to see the letter in full and the agreement including this schedule 2 to fully understand your position. I don't think your situation is any different to the others who VT but good to read the terms and fully understand what was agreed before you can properly formulate a robust response.

[ScrewLoose]

That's all been sent across, I'm not sure why my replies all have funky characters attached to the end though,*

I'm happy for all or this to be shared if it helps others in the future! Thanks again,*