VT HP & Volkswagen Finance Claiming Excess Mileage

[lg007]

Hello everyone! (especially rob!) Firstly thank you so much for the time spent & level of information posted on this forum, it's all been really helpful!

Without boring you all I'm looking for some advice & help on my Wife's VT with Volkswagen - We VT'd the car after 46 months on a 48 month agreement, originally the finance company tried to take money from my Wife's account via direct debit even though they had not been in contact and we had not received any letters (although we did expect to be charged for the excess mileage). Luckily the bank stopped the payment and we have since received a letter claiming we owe £ 746.64 for excess mileage. Using your superb information & templates I have responded detailing why we do not believe we owe this debt.

In addition to the excess mileage letter we have received a further letter detailing other charges for 'Auction Commission' & 'Auction Misc' (£ -35.37) which I do not understand, I have requested detail to the charges but we have been sent the exact same letter twice.

I'm just looking for some advice as to whether the excess mileage charge is enforceable as all information on this forum suggests it is not. The mileage did exceed the agreement quite drastically (17k nearly double!) and I was wondering if this would have a negative effect on our claim? The car was kept in an immaculate condition we have evidence of such with photos, the individual who carried out the report on behalf of VW agreed and showed my wife his iPad screen that nothing additional was reported beyond reasonable wear and tear and therefore we would not be charged. We did receive a one page .pdf but didn't receive a vehicle condition report (yet).

Any early help with this would be much appreciated, thanks

Leigh

[lg007]

Hi guys, I've since received a response from Themis Recoveries that fails to respond to any of my previous correspondence (with VW Finance) regarding the excess mileage and now demands we pay the owed sum within 7 days. I would appreciate any help on my response. Is there any further template letters I could alter and send to the recovery company, I could provide a redacted copy of the letter if that helps?

Any advice would be much appreciated

Leigh

[Herdy]

Hi I am also in the same place.

I VT'd last July and on the 1st of April 2019 I recieved a letter from the same company (themis) I caved and paid 700 from the 1580 I owed as I'd rather not go down the route of court etc.

2 weeks later I got another letter from another company. Debt and revenue services (DRS) upon reading up they're a debt collecting agency and cant actually enforce anything like a bailiff can? I'd also like to see if theres any other letters to send as I'm sick of receiving letters from them constantly.

[R0b]

If you are constantly receiving letters from them then I would suggest you write to DRS with a copy to VWFS setting out in no uncertain terms that you are receiving contact from them on a constant basis that is tantamount to harassment. You could re-iterate your previous position and explicitly state that this is your final position and all further correspondence should cease with immediate effect. If VWFS believe they have a valid claim against you then they should pursue an action for the recovery of the alleged debt, which of course you will defend should that be the case.

Should VWFS or DRS ignore you and persist in sending out demand letters then you will have no hesitation in bringing a claim against VWFS and DRS for harassment.without further notice. You could alternatively state that you will make a formal complaint to VWFS with a view to taking the matter to the Financial Ombudsman if no satisfactory response is given.

If you choose to do nothing, then you can't complain that your sick of receiving them if you aren't going to take any action.

[Herdy]

Thanks r0b I will take that into account.

Just a quick one as I've looked through the letters from VWFS and one that stands out is the end of contract invoice.

The last 2 paragraphs from the letter say " following your inspection please see the below invoice, these are items that fell below these standards and/or any excess mileage charges, if applicable." Please find below a summary of your end of contract charges."

Now nowhere on the letter does it say any charges for excess mileage. Under the invoice it has :

"Auction commission- non rebil." Amount including VAT £15.80
"Auction misc - non rebill." Amount including VAT £25.30

Im fully aware I went over my mileage and consequently they're now trying to charge me £882 (1582 previously but panicked and paid 700 when I recieved a letter from a debt collection agency)

I took the advice from when I vt'd to just ignore them and in March they wrote to me.

Question is why does the end of contract invoice say nothing to be paid other than auction costs (which I obliged and paid) but now they want excess mileage costs recovering? Is it a case of they messed up or am I being silly?

Hope you can help!

[R0b]

So challenge them on it and see what their response is. You are not obliged to pay any auction fees since it is up to VWFS to choose how it sells the car as the agreement has terminated.

The fact that you've paid 700 as a panic could put you in a position that you are deemed to have admitted liability for the excess mileage debt as a part payment. On the flip side you could argue that you did pay in a panic but are paying nothing more and let them sue you in court.

[Herdy]

Thanks again R0b .

I assume they have copies of letters they have sent so I can quote the date and they'll know exactly what I'm going on about?

I've never had a letter off them saying what the balance due is for. It simply states outstanding balance owed. I did think it would come across like I admitted liability but at the time I just wanted the letters to stop.

Is the best course of action regarding contacting them phone or email/letter?

Thanks again

[R0b]

It would be worrying if they didn't have a copy of the letter on their system.

Best to keep things in writing for records and paper trail but if you need to phone, make sure you can record the call.

[lg007]

rob thankyou so much for your help!!

I'm yet to respond to Themis Recoveries regarding their letter demanding we contact VW Finance and pay the debt.

My previous letter to VW was similar to your template information as per the below :

On 19^th December 2018, I terminated the hire-purchase agreement ("HP Agreement") and following the return of the vehicle, you have wrote to me on 20^th March 2019 stating that the sum of £746.64 is due and payable for excess mileage charges. Although you did not explicitly refer to the HP Agreement clause, I have assumed that (based on the calculation of damages claimed) you are referring to clause 11.1 of the HP Agreement and therefore claiming breach of contract. Whilst I do not dispute the fact that the vehicle's mileage exceeded the agreed amount under the contract, I do not, however, accept that I am indebted to you because: -

1. The HP Agreement is regulated and subject to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ("CCA 1974"). I exercised my right under Section 99(1) to terminate the HP Agreement voluntarily and in doing so, limited my liability to one half of the total price payable as per Section 100(1) of the CCA 1974. Furthermore, the CCA 1974 has a specific meaning for "total price" and it specifically excludes the recoverability of damages for breach of contract i.e. excess mileage or any other type of compensation and I am sure you will no doubt be aware that Acts of Parliament such as the CCA 1974 take precedence over common law contractual terms.

2. In a recent County Court Case (Mercedes-Benz Financial Services UK Limited v Cahalane) Deputy District Judge Ellington (as she was then) found that, among several other reasons, excess mileage charges were damages for breach of contract and the definition of "total price" under the CCA 1974 excluded those charges for the purposes of whether such charges could be recovered under a voluntary termination. Accordingly, Mercedes failed in their claim for excess mileage charges.

For the reasons mentioned above, I can see no basis for you claiming to be owed £746.64 relating excess mileage charges resulting from a breach of contract. I should also point out that as an authorised firm that is regulated by the FCA, you are required to comply with certain rules. In particular, Rule 7.5.3 of the Consumer Credit Sourcebook ("CONC") requires you not to:

"ignore or disregard a customer's claim that a debt has been settled or is disputed and must not continue to make demands for payment without providing clear justification and/or evidence as to why the customer's claim is not valid."

In my view, you have failed to provide any clear evidence or justification that the contractual terms under the HP Agreement take precedence over the provisions of the CCA 1974, and as such, you appear to be in breach of Rule 7.5.3 above.

I understand that you have up to 8 weeks to investigate my complaint and provide me with your final decision. If I am not satisfied with your response or you fail to reach a decision within that allotted time, I shall be entitled to pursue my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.

I would appreciate if you could acknowledge this letter within the next 14 days, as well as providing me with a copy of your complaints policy.

The response from VW was to contact Themis Recovery to settle the debt without providing any response to the above or any other of my letters for that matter. Do you think I should send the same letter to the debt recovery specialists claiming they cease contacting me and this is my final decision regarding the debt?

I'm willing to defend it if necessary based on the info in this forum however would prefer it went away before any court dates.

Thanks
Leigh