*** WON *** VT - Damage charges... Startline

[PablosD]

Thank you.

I was reading through that last night. They are actually the reason I went searching for my old car. It's really good to see someone actually come back when it's over to report how it ended up. Really helpful.

I'm just trying to put together a new email to send them incorporating all the latest information.

And not incorporating any £75 offer!

Paul.

[PablosD]

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Voluntary Termination

Agreement Number: XXXXXXXXXXXX
Vehicle Registration: XXXXXXXXXXX

I am writing to you with reference to the above matter concerning the £190 charges raised for damage you alleged was caused whilst the vehicle was in my possession.

The agent I spoke to on the phone (5th October 2018 at 11:04) informed me that the £190 is the result of your initial claim of £1519 damages minus the money you made at auction above what was expected.

I asked her if what she was telling me is that, even though the law states that the car must be returned in "reasonable" condition, my car was in such good condition that you got an extra one thousand three hundred pounds from its sale at auction, and you still allege I owe damages beyond reasonable wear and tear?

She confirmed that this correct and it is the reason for the new amount of £190.

Therefore I shall bring your attention to the following:

The vehicle was maintained in a reasonable condition throughout the period of the agreement and therefore I do not accept liability for the sum of £190 that you are claiming to be owed, nor the initial claim of £1519. I would refer you to the Court of Appeal case Brady v St. Margaret's Trust [1963] 3 W.L.R 1162 which was concerned with the extent of a hirer's duty to take reasonable care of the vehicle. On that point, Lord Denning stated the following:

"There should be evidence by the hire-purchase company to show the condition of the goods at the time the agreement was made and to show how far the hirer has defaulted under it. As I read this clause, the hirer's duty is to keep the car in the condition in which it might reasonably be expected to be if he had looked after it properly. He need not put it in a better condition than it was when he hired it. He need only keep it in the condition in which a reasonably minded hirer would keep it. Thus he would repair it if there was an accident, and he would do the immediate repairs in the course of running the car, but no more. The hire-purchase company should give evidence of any default on his part in that duty."

The damage listed in your report does not indicate that the car is not in "reasonable" condition, especially considering the age and mileage of the vehicle. In fact, I would argue that receiving £1329 above the expected sale value proves that the car was in better than reasonable condition. I have also found the car for sale after the auction for £4995. This is considerably more than the CAP prices shown in your damage report and further proves that it was returned in better condition than required by law. I have obtained a copy of a recent finding by the Financial Ombudsman Service stating that, in that similar case, "Mr A has provided evidence that the car was sold on eBay by the person who purchased it at auction soon after the auction for £7,990, which is significantly more than its CAP value. This suggests that the car was in good condition. It’s unlikely that someone would pay more than CAP value if the car was damaged as alleged." He then found in the favour of the customer and awarded damages. I will therefore have no alternative than to keep escalating this until a satisfactory resolution is found.

With regards to the initial damage report, the onus is on you to prove that the damage to the vehicle was specifically caused by me during the time that I had it. Given that the vehicle has done around 115,000 overall and has had multiple owners, I am astounded that you seem to be suggesting that all of the damage listed on the condition report occurred during the period of hire. Photographic evidence was taken prior to the vehicle being collected and it was regularly serviced in accordance with the manufacturer's guidelines and the agent who collected the vehicle commented in particular that the vehicle was in good condition given the age and mileage of it.

I would also point out that the tyre you list as illegal is showing in your report as having 1.6mm of tread which contradicts your findings as 1.6mm is legal.

Finally, the condition report issued by Manheim does not prove that any damage was sustained during the period of time that it was in my possession, rather it simply lists the damage. There is no evidence to suggest that the damage had occurred whilst it was in my custody and I would repeat what I mentioned above in that the vehicle has had multiple owners and driven 115,000 miles and therefore I require you to provide me with your evidence to back up your claim, along with evidence that the car was not in a reasonable condition for it's age and mileage.

In any event, such sums you are alleging to be owed may only be recovered by a court order only and should you wish to pursue this matter in court, your application will be strongly defended.

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

Yours faithfully,


PABLOSD

[PablosD]

I forgot to delete the information! Nooooo!

[PablosD]

Amethyst R0b or anyone... How can I edit posts.

*EDIT* - Never mind... Found it!

[Kati]

I forgot to delete the information! Nooooo!

Amethyst R0b or anyone... How can I edit posts?

sorted xx

[PablosD]

Just had yet ANOTHER letter about late payments in the post! In the last week and a bit that makes 3 letters, 2 texts and 2 emails. At what point does it get excessive?


*EDIT* Make that 3 text messages. Another one just came through whilst writing this. The previous text was Tuesday!

[pt2537]

Just had yet ANOTHER letter about late payments in the post! In the last week and a bit that makes 3 letters, 2 texts and 2 emails. At what point does it get excessive?


*EDIT* Make that 3 text messages. Another one just came through whilst writing this. The previous text was Tuesday!

Make sure you keep a record, its vital if this matter ends up in court as you may well want to raise an unfair relationship too under s140A CCA 1974

[PablosD]

Quick mini update...

I've sent the letter special delivery so I can track it and it has to be signed for.

I've had another couple of emails and letters from them about payment. They're relentless! The latest letter says that, because I haven't responded to their previous letters, they will start adding £15 charges on. Ha ha. Really?

The best part was when a man from the finance company called me up because my lack of payment got flagged and asked me what was going on with my car!! I told him it's not my car anymore and he ASKED IF I'VE GIVEN IT BACK!! I said, "Yes! Over a month ago!"

Unbelievable!!

I'm still slightly apprehensive about how they will reply but, as I've mentioned before, if they sold my car at auction for OVER A THOUSAND POUNDS MORE than they expected I can't see how they can claim it wasn't in reasonable condition.

I'll keep you posted.

[Bazzarma]

[QUOTE=PablosD;n1425453]Hello.... I hope you don't mind me starting a different thread in here. I have http://legalbeagles.info/forums/foru...damage-charges in the welcome forum but, as its a finance issue, I thought I'd try here too.
The short version, as the long one is up there, is I'm being charged £1500 for chips, scratches and scuffs on a 7 year old, 115000 mile Peugeot. I personally think it was well cared for, serviced, cleaned, etc and it is, at minimum, in reasonable condition (I'd say good). I have attached their findings.
I intend to use Rob's template letter with regards to denying their claim for damage, but I would be grateful if someone could scan over it quickly and advise me if it's a good idea or if the damage isn't reasonable?
Sorry for the extra thread. I hope it's ok. It's just that I need to reply to them and I'm obviously panicking at having to find £1500 from somewhere.
Thank you for what you do here. I think its incredible.
Kind regards,
Paul.
[/QUOTE

Hi Paul

I have just seen you come up my notifications and reading about your problems. I am facing now to hand my car back for health and financial reasons now, with the help from rob from the letters what to say to the finance company, I thought I could hand the car more or less straight back, I find the 50% way too much to try and do a Voluntary Termination. To cut a long story short, I went off and did some more research and taking note of my rights from the agreement. I found I could sell the car but have to get the loan company's permission that gave me the Hire Purchase, I have also found out what the car is worth too. The car has been stood for about 3 weeks because I can't now drive it for health reasons.

My car is not in use now and it's been standing, drivers without undue car and attention parking next to mine at my home have scratched it down both sides, there are no dents, I think it could be kids that scratched the car as well. I am well aware for damages to the car when under the hire purchase agreement and to keep the car in good condition. My car is in perfect condition now having found it needed a new engine 2 months in to the agreement this is rectified now. I have written a letter to the finance company that has been courteous up to now. I have more or less told them in layman terms that I will pay for the scratches fixing. I still wait for their reply and if I have not heard anything by this coming Monday I will send them the same email registered post.

Do you think I have done the right thing by the scratches? Oh, I forgot to say, I had the car since May of this year 2018.

Kind regards
Bazzarma

[PablosD]

Sorry for your problems Bazzarma and I hope you find an answer. It would be better starting a new thread for yourself so that you can get your own replies and not get them confused with what I'm currently going through. Good luck.

As for my car.... This next part fills me with rage!

I've been told by Startline Finance MANY MANY times, in almost every phone call, that this WON'T affect my credit report because I've given the car back.

Today I went to do a quick sweep of the three reports and got a far as noddle and found my score had plummeted! And sure enough, under Startline Finance it says late payment, with a number 1 and an "AA" (whatever that stands for).

I think I've read on here that this is illegal because any money they think I owe them for damages isn't part of the finance agreement so it shouldn't show up.

Even during my last call with them on the 13th, when the man didn't know anything, he then said that affecting the credit score is done personally by management so it won't happen because they would see that I've given back the car.

I would very much like to make a claim against them now, for acting illegally, but I'm wondering how is the best place to start this. Is there any chance R0b could give me a pointer, or any other of the kind people helping out.

And maybe you could have a look at Bazzarma's problems too?

Thank you all for your time.

I'm so very glad that I'm not currently in the middle of something that would have required me to be checked, like moving house or buying a car.

Paul.

[Bazzarma]

Hi Paul, PablosD

Thank you for advice about making a new thread. I do hope you will get your problems dealt with as soon as possible, as I am a newbie I was finding difficult to get answers.

Studying R0b his letters and what he says, my problems; I wrote an email asking for the settlement figure and their permission to sell the car. I told my Finance Company Advantage Ltd the car is in perfect condition, having found it needed a new engine from the start of HP agreement and scratches which I told them I would repair, the scratches done by kids or without undue car and attention drivers while my car is being parked up due to ill-health and financial difficulty now. I have not reached the 50% mark only paid 3 months out 53 months. Their answer is I can sell to a dealership and not private.

To date I have not received the settlement figure, I got told by a family member the Finance Company will accept the car straight back to them with little expense involved, now I have run into ill-health and financial problems, but things are not that straight forward as I found researching here in legal beagles for an answer. I have also read that a dealership can give you less of what the car is worth, I also now know what the car is worth a Megane 2010 with onboard Sat-nav. At the moment I am looking into legal advice, I found someone on here who perhaps can do that via telephone. I will let you know my outcome. Please let me know how it goes with you.


Take Care

Bazzarma

[PablosD]

Hello everyone again.

Because I'm rather stressed and I would be very grateful if someone could help, I'll just post again, in case you just scan the last post, while working through. (I'd imagine that your probably all very busy as it is...)

While I'm waiting for the reply for my letter posted Friday (the one I shared here, disputing charges and denying liabilities) can someone just advise me if I can take legal steps against them or get compensation, for marking me down with a late payment on my credit file, even though the car has been returned over a month ago and therefore, as far as I'm aware, that payment agreement has ended?

Thank you.

Paul.

[R0b]

Hi Paul,

Not much you could do unless you are prepared to take them to Court over it. If you choose to pay it then you will be deemed to admitted liability so I would advise against any payment unless there is guarantees in writing that they will remove all adverse entries from your file.

Should you wish to go down the legal route, you may wish to have a conversation with pt2537 (Paul Tilley) who may be able to assist you and come to a fee arrangement to take on your case. Perhaps if this is one of Paul's first cases around this, maybe he could do you good deal as a test case for his firm?!

If Paul is unable to do it or you can't come to an arrangement then you might have to go it alone and I will help you wherever possible but ultimately its your case and you would have to take it all the way. As it is Money Barn, I'm not sure whether they would fold at any time and you may have to take it to the wire for them to concede or settle but you won't know that until you kickstart things.

[pt2537]

Hi Paul,

Not much you could do unless you are prepared to take them to Court over it. If you choose to pay it then you will be deemed to admitted liability so I would advise against any payment unless there is guarantees in writing that they will remove all adverse entries from your file.

Should you wish to go down the legal route, you may wish to have a conversation with pt2537 (Paul Tilley) who may be able to assist you and come to a fee arrangement to take on your case. Perhaps if this is one of Paul's first cases around this, maybe he could do you good deal as a test case for his firm?!

If Paul is unable to do it or you can't come to an arrangement then you might have to go it alone and I will help you wherever possible but ultimately its your case and you would have to take it all the way. As it is Money Barn, I'm not sure whether they would fold at any time and you may have to take it to the wire for them to concede or settle but you won't know that until you kickstart things.

Id be happy to have a chat or email if its easier.

[Bazzarma]

Hi Paul Tilley pt2537

This is an update for Paul PablosD to let him know how I got on, since I last messaged him here in Legal Beagles. I am still looking for further advice here on Legal Beagles, as I have now rang CAB yesterday, they told me that under the HP agreement that they sold me a faulty car that there is a case.

I will explain what has gone on for you Paul and R0b . I contacted Advantage Finance Ltd asking for a VT, settlement figure and their permission to sell the car. To date I have signed no papers all I want them to do is to now take the car back where I cannot drive the car no more due to financial difficulty and ill-health, This I have explained in the beginning, their reply was they have now put my account on hold for a few days more until the 20th Oct and that I can now sell the car to a dealership and not private.

I got my car in May of this year and found it need a new engine and a replacement Sat-Nav but now my car has received scratches from without undue care and attention drivers or kids with my car being parked up due to ill-health. I do understand the terms of the agreement, but now I got told by a family if I sell to a dealership they will not buy it because of the HP agreement, that is why I asked the finance company permission.

My agreement is 53 payable months at £154.88 and a final payment of £329.88, I do understand that I needed to have paid at least 50% of the agreement which is £4388.76 for a VT of the agreement, I have only paid 3 months and to date have missed 2 payments come 20th Oct. I also understand the repossession clause to my rights.

The clause is: - If you do not keep to your side of the agreement but you have paid at least one-third of the total amount payable under this agreement that is £2925.84 we may not take back the Goods against your wishes unless we get a court order (in Scotland we may need to get a court order at any time). If we do take the goods without your consent or a court order, you have the right to get back any money that you have paid under this agreement.

The total amount of the agreement is £8777.52. The agreement is electronically signed over the internet I have not signed the agreement by hand because I did not get a copy of the agreement when I took the finance out for the car back in May I had to ask the finance company for this 2 weeks ago to see where I stand. Can you please advise.


May I add I have been following Paul PablosD to see how he has been getting along with his case.



Kind Regard

Bazzarma