Innocent car purchasers rights with finance company Different scenario

[ScrewedAvelo]

Hi. Seems I am not alone getting trouble with the Avelo/Credit 4 cars scam - though my situation is very different...
I swapped my 4x4car with another man for his car, at his home and even had a coffee, then 2+ years later found it it was on finance to C4C who had gone bust but then bought by same Director at Avelo. They tried to get car back through Burlingtons who took all my evidence including Innocent Purchaser decaration and said everything looks good for you, and it is VERY strong evidence that I was conned, back to Avelo who then fired them and changed to the BIG villans Sh00smiths who then did the opposite. Even went to cops with a legally signed exchange agreement between us station it was HP/debt clear and his to sell - they said bugger off not our problem it's a civil fraud. I only got a rough figure that the car was financed for about £3500 but the buyer never made a single payment and swapped it with me before the 1st payment was due. I did a HP txt check when I bought the car and it was finance clear but over a year after that I changed phones/number so that is long gone now.
Now I've cleared up some of the legal issues ie I am in Scotland so they cannot legally reposess without more cost and a Court Order. However the car was a total con being valued at £2000 for which i then spent another £2300 to keep running as it was a dog the very next day only to find out, I only checked online after the 1st letter arrived as I have a fully stamped service history book with the car!!!, it had been clocked/shaved by 175,000 miles!!!! to a mere 117,000. So basically the car is worth nothing.
Questions are:
Can I sell it to recover my costs?
Can I scrap it or will I then be liable to pay these &^*%$'s
What happens in event I have accident - will the payout got to Avelo or me?
The car is my only transport and on it's last legs so I am wary of spending any more on it and last thing I need is a lump of scrap in my yard I cannot get rid of.
I dont want to approach Avelo again - check them out online with their legal buddies to see how nasty they are.
Can anyone advise?

[Amethyst]

What's the current situation - are shoosmiths attempting to repossess the car or sue you for the payments ?

[ScrewedAvelo]

What's the current situation - are shoosmiths attempting to repossess the car or sue you for the payments ?

Stalemate - not heard for 1 year. Obviously dont want to spend money pursuing it and as far as I know thay have not gone after the dodgy seller either. Costs and proceedures in Scotland very different to England.
Situation stands that I informed them I will remove every single part I fiited to car - wheels/tryes/turbo/cylinder head/battery/electronics/injectors/filters/brakes/calipers/hubs etc etc that I have fiited to this lump of scrap.
At most car is currently worth £2-400 before I remove those parts.

[ScrewedAvelo]

Anyone got any sound advise?

[Setmefree3]

The Hire Purchase Act 1964 (as amended) gives special rights to customers buying cars subject to Hire Purchase and Conditional Sale agreements.

Under a Hire Purchase/Conditional Sale agreement the finance company generally own the car until the end of the finance agreement. If a person has the vehicle on such a finance agreement then sells it to a private and innocent purchaser the purchaser gets good title to the car. The only recourse the finance company has is against the person who had it on finance or any of the trade buyers/sellers in between.

The rules are very strict and the legislation is simply a protection measure for private buyers of cars, which obviously can readily be acquired on finance by someone with less than honourable intentions or increasingly selling on by someone who is in financial difficulties.

The rules are:


a) The buyer must be a private buyer. If they are a motor trader or operate a finance business then they are excluded.

b) The buyer must have no knowledge of the car being on finance.

The rights are extended by the fact that if the original customer who has it on finance sells the car to a non private buyer e.g. a motor dealer and it perhaps goes through a chain of motor dealers before finally being sold to a private and innocent purchaser then that last person will still get good title.


So too does anyone also purchasing the vehicle, even the motor dealer, after it has gone through the hands of an innocent private purchaser.

did you perhaps make a payment as well as the swap of vehicles?
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1964/53/section/27

test case.
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2013/346.html

[ScrewedAvelo]

Hi. Thank you for detailed reply. No money was exchanged - both vehicles being valued at roughly £2000 each. In Scotland this apparntly is legally defined as chattles/goods so reads the same as money.
The position we are in after 4 years is that a) We cannot get the car cleared from finance by Avelo b) We cannot sell it - even though its worth next to nothing, sub £400, and owes us over £4500 todate c) We cannot scrap it d) If we are ever involved in an accident we will get nothing from the insurance as it apparantly any payout goes to the finance company e) If it breaks down permenantly we have nowhere to store it indefinetly because of all the above!
As the test case you quote was in England does that also apply in Scotland?
So what do we do now - can you advise?

[Setmefree3]

jaguarsuk i have tagged in over this. Hopefully will be able to advise further, or tagg in others who have experience in dealing with these matters. :-)

[ScrewedAvelo]

Thank you.

[jaguarsuk]

My knowledge of Scottish Law & Procedure is very limited, so @scottishsolicitor might be better placed to advise.

[ScrewedAvelo]

Is that a web address or ?
Only diff in Scots Law is part about reposession through courtorder

[ScrewedAvelo]

Come on folks - surely with all this trained legal brainpower there must be someone with definitive answers out there?

[R0b]

Come on folks - surely with all this trained legal brainpower there must be someone with definitive answers out there?

We predominantly deal with law relating England and Wales and there are not many people on here who are well versed in Scottish law. What Jaguar was doing was tagging someone named ScottishSolicitor using the @ symbol so they are notified of this thread.

Perhaps ScottishSolicitor might be able to offer something more than we can.

Whilst you might think that the only difference between English/Welsh and Scottish law is the repossession order (that may well be the case) I certainly don't feel comfortable saying anything which falls outside of my specialty.

[ScrewedAvelo]

Thanks again for reply. Having had many legal dealings through my business's I can understant your reticence. The closest I got to an answer was that Contract Law was the driving force on this subject re ownership. The other points in question are more troubling ie: The position we are in after 4 years is that a) We cannot get the car cleared from finance by Avelo but can we get it cleared by a higher authourity?b) We cannot sell it - even though its worth next to nothing, sub £400, and owes us over £4500 todate c) We cannot scrap it d) If we are ever involved in an accident we will get nothing from the insurance as it apparantly any payout goes to the finance company e) If it breaks down permenantly we have nowhere to store it indefinetly because of all the above!

[ScrewedAvelo]

Well Rob looks like this has stalled. Cant believe no substantial answer on how we stand with disposal of the vehicle though....

[des8]

This might seem a bit simplistic but>>..
You are in possession of a vehicle on which there is outstanding finance from Avelo,
It probably doesn't actually matter who owns it as it has no value (your statement)
As it is valueless it is not worth your while to attempt to sell it as you will not recover your costs.
If you continue to drive it and write it off in an accident any payout will go to Avelo. So insure it third party only if you intend to keep driving it.
If you just want to dispose of it,you have a choice
i) tell Avelo to arrange collection within so many days and that if they fail you will advise DVLA that you are no longer registered keeper but Avelo are, and the vehicle can be found at xyz. (somewhere safe but public ?supermarket car park not controlled by ANPR cameras)
ii) tell Avelo if they won't collect their vehicle you will assume the position of an involuntary bailee and dispose of it via auction and will send them any proceeds less your costs
iii) just dispose of it via a scrappy (I doubt they would do an HPI check) and inform DVLA of change of keeper