VWFS - Voluntary Termination - Early 2018

[JazzJPH]

Hi Guys,

Just to add to the vast number of VT threads, I'll post my situation.

I VT'd my 61 plate VW Scirocco recently. I took the risk of leaving it at the dealership where I purchased my new Audi A4 (lease), which is through VWFS again. BCA collected it from Audi without me being present. I had it completely cleaned out, washed and took timestamped photos and videos the week beforehand. It looked great for a 6 year old car. I couldn't see any real issue.

I received the invoice:
£1000 in excess mileage
£340 in repairs

Mileage:
We were advised at point of sale by a VW main dealer in Durham, that we should take the mileage down to make it cheaper. It was also inferred that VWFS would be lenient on any charges providing we purchased a car through VWFS again. This turned out to be a load of tosh.
I was wary though, and worked out the cost of paying monthly for extra miles vs paying the excess charge - so even if I pay that £1000 I still haven't really lost any money. So I am happy to pay that. I mentioned the situation to the adviser at VWFS and suggested we meet half way. She said they don't negotiate on mileage so that's that. Fair enough.

Repairs:
This is annoying. As mentioned many times on these forums, VW use the BVRLA fair wear and tear guide, which I think is naff. It's a 6 year old car not a new car at the end of its lease. They're charging for 3 wheels being unsatisfactory at £36 a pop. They're not bad, I'll post photos if anyone is interested. They're also charging me £150 for a locking wheel nut key. I thought it would be in the car since I can't recall removing it for any reason. Still, that's expensive. Then there's an unsatisfactorily repaired fuel flap which was done by the main dealer. Since I submitted all receipts when I handed my car to the dealer, I have no proof, so I have to phone the dealer and ask them to send me evidence which essentially proves they are responsible. What I think is great about the fuel flap situation is the adviser says the BCA guy reported the damage. I asked if he provided the receipts and the adviser said no, she doesn't know where the car is. So basically - she can bill me for damage he says exists, but she can't get the receipt from him....

VWFS have not shown any indication of budging on the repairs. The car is in absolutely beautiful condition for the age. It's sickening that they're being this brutal. I've read elsewhere on these forums that they've been lenient to people due to how good condition the vehicle was in.

Summary:
I'm fine with mileage. I'm annoyed at the repair costs. There's no damage that I wouldn't class as fair wear and tear. If I was buying the car I wouldn't flinch. The alloy damage they're mentioning is age-related - a few scuffs and some corrosion of the centre hub. But for some reason the BVRLA standards state that absolutely no damage is acceptable to the centre of alloy wheels.

I know it's odd that I'm happy for the £1000 but not the repairs. It's the principle. I was advised by the dealer that they'd be lenient if I went through VWFS again. I actually ended up paying more monthly to buy the A4 financed by VWFS than if I went to another hire company - which adds to the annoyance. I just want to be treated fairly, and currently I feel like VWFS are not treating me as a valued customer. I tried to show a reasonable attitude but the adviser pounced on that and wouldn't budge on anything.

Let me know what you guys think...

[JazzJPH]

Oh - I also forgot to mention - the settlement for the VT was at the stage of paying £7,140 and by the point of VT I had paid £9,000. I'm assuming that £1800+ that I overpaid would not even be considered by VWFS for a little leniency..

Also, the damage to the centre of the wheel that they're charging me £36 per wheel for, is actually the centre plastic cap. OEM pack of 4 is £9 so I'll bring that up too.

Sick of these guys already. Annoyed that I'm already stuck in my new lease with them so captive customer really. Will make sure I look over this situation before going with them again.

[JazzJPH]

I have received the report from VWFS. It's strange they sent me an invoice for the total cost but wouldn't readily release the breakdown... The breakdown is below, please bear in mind this car is now 6 years old. Personally I feel that it's in satisfactory condition for the age:

Component	Condition	Severity	Repair Method	Repair Value
Alloy wheel key	Missing	Not Available	Replace	£150.00
Wheel LHF	Gouge	Rim over 50mm	Refurb Alloy Wheel	£36.00
Wheel LHR	Corroded	Caused by damage	Refurb Alloy Wheel	£36.00
Wheel RHF	Gouge	Rim upto 50mm	Refurb Alloy Wheel	£36.00
Fuel flap	Unsatisfactory repair	Flaking paint	Refinish	£27.60
				£285.60

I have found online that a replacement wheel nut key is £41.98 delivered.

Can anyone please advise if I can fight the repair costs? Of course, do tell me if you think they're being reasonable. I have looked after this car but if someone can point out why I should pay the repairs then I will consider it and be reasonable.

Jazz

[Kati]

R0b ??

[R0b]

Hi JAZJPH

Contesting damage charges is subjective and really depends on one's view as to whether the condition of the car overall is in a reasonable state.

I would check your contract in the first instance and there is likely to be a clause which makes reference to the car being returned in a condition that is in accordance with the BVRLA Guidelines. In my view those guidelines are far too rigid and does not take into account the fact that the longer someone has the vehicle, the more likely that damage will occur over time through scuffs and minor dents etc.

VW will rely on the contract that says you must comply with that but as I mentioned above, my view is that the guidelines are too restrictive and could be contrary to your obligation to take reasonable care of the car. In the VT Guide I mention the HPI CAP Conditions on the basis that it takes into account the age of the vehicle and accepts that there is likely to be more damage the older it gets (whereas the BVRLA does not) and therefore those guidelines tend to be more appropriate.

Obviously this is my view and it is open to interpretation but the decision is ultimately up to you as to whether you challenge it or not. There is always the risk that they might take you to court over it so you need to be prepared to defend your corner if it comes to that. Equally, some companies such as BMW apply late payments on your credit file for refusing to pay up. I find this is in breach of data protection but again the only recourse for you would be to go to court over that, which might be something your not prepared to do.

If you found a replacement locking wheel nut for that price and is from a reputable supplier then I would certainly challenge it. You can always ask them how they have calculated that price and where they got their quotes from. You should only be liable for the cost of repair (or arguably a proportion of the cost) but the car should not be put in a better condition than they would ordinarily be.

[R0b]

I've also attached a copy of the BVRLA Guidelines so you can look through them yourself. I am not entirely sure how up to date they are but you can see that they indicate any damage must be less than the specifications it refers to.

I've also attached VW's fair wear and tear guide which is no doubt based off the BVRLA Guidelines.

[JazzJPH]

Hi rob, thanks for posting the guides. I responded today. I don't think I'll get anywhere, they were quite adamant I'd be paying in full every charge.

I basically stated the facts, the damage doesn't seem unreasonable for age. I sent the receipt for the fuel flap repair so that should disappear. Charging £150 for a replacement wheel nut key is an insult.

I appreciate I carried out the excess miles so I'll reiterate I'm happy to pay all of that - although I did say any goodwill gesture on taking that value down a little would be appreciated.

I just think as a returning VWFS customer (now in my 6th week of the new car through them) that they could show a bit of goodwill. It just seems to be all take at every turn. I paid £1800 over the VT amount, which of course probably amounts to nothing in their eyes because it's just a legal safety net for me.

Looking forward to this ending. If they're going to be so insistent I'll be looking elsewhere in 2 years when my current deal is up. I don't fancy being treated like this again.

[JazzJPH]

Just came off another call with the adviser at VWFS. The fuel flap damage has been written off because I sent in the receipt.

When I sent the VT email in, I didn't sign anything or agree to it being checked by BCA or it being measured against BVRLA standards. So hopefully I have something in my pocket there.

The adviser won't budge on the alloy wheel damage (see images in previous post). Am I wrong in thinking that they're fine for 6 year old?

The adviser also mentioned that I can't send in a replacement wheel key as the car is now with BCA. I have to submit to their extortionate prices.

The conversation went in circles, there was no attempt by the adviser to be understanding or show any goodwill at all. I feel like I have a case to fight, but I just hoped they wouldn't take it that far.

Any input would be appreciated.

[JazzJPH]

@R0b and anyone else interested - Update:

VWFS sent me a final letter, which basically said it is not their policy to look at any leniency on customers. It also is not their duty to examine a car fairly due to age. They also stated this quote in their letter:
"Whilst we acknowledge you may be a returning customer to Volkswagen Finance, in line with treating all our customers fairly, we are unable to negotiate on the total amount payable for your end of contract charges due to brand loyalty".

This was completely the opposite to what I was told at the main dealer when I purchased the car. I honestly thought main dealers would be more respectable than the run-of-the-mill used car dealer, but I guess they all say anything to get you to sign and pay.

So I appealed to the ombudsman. I'm not confident anything good will come of it, but still, it won't cost me any extra so I'll go for it.

Ombudsman appeal:
My previous vehicle was financed on a PCP deal with Volkswagen Finance Services and was voluntarily terminated last month. When I first took the car on it was three years old with two previous owners. The deal was terminated after three years, making the car six years old at the point of termination.

VWFS are holding me against BVRLA standards, which they admit I did not agree to in my contract or in the termination. BVRLA standards are only fair for new cars returned at the end of their lease, not preowned cars that are six years old. I felt it fair to use Cap HPI guidelines as these show expected deterioration taking into account the age. I do not feel it is fair for VWFS to hold me against standards that are only favourable to them.

I was charged for excess mileage, which I am happy to pay. There is no contest against this from me.

I feel VWFS are being extremely unfair in the following areas:

1. Charging £150 for a replacement wheel nut key. I can replace the key, but they will not accept that I send the key to them. It would only cost me £41.98 - a legitimate OEM part that VWFS themselves could buy online, but their wording is:

"As outlined with the BVRLA guide it states all accessories must be present and returned with the vehicle. You had the opportunity to rectify this prior to collection of the vehicle and have failed to do so."

Again, using the BVRLA guide was not agreed with myself. Also, it's unfair to try to force me to pay their charges when an OEM part can be found for £41.98 online.


2. Alloy wheel refurbishments (LHF, LHR & RHF) at £36 each (£108 total)
For the same reasons previously stated, this is a 6 year old car in great condition for its age. It falls within the Cap HPI standards as a "clean" car (better than average). By using BVRLA standards, VWFS are trying to make me take their used car and turn it into a new car.
I was told over the phone that the centres of the alloy wheels are damaged. I believe that is due to wear and tear for the age of the vehicle but these centres are plastic and four OEM centre caps can be purchased for £9 which I am happy to pay.

VWFS have admitted we have no agreement to use BVRLA standards in their final letter.

So to conclude, I feel it is fair for VWFS to have an OEM replacement alloy wheel nut key, but I feel it is unfair for them to put any price tag they wish on it and not give me the chance to replace the part. I have many images of the car, all round, including the alloy wheels, which are absolutely fine for their age.

How I would like them to put it right:
I want VWFS to revise their invoice. This would mean removing the cost of:
Alloy Wheel Refurb (£36 x 3 wheels) = £108.00 + VAT - These charges are unfair and are according to standards I did not agree to.
Wheel Nut Key - £150 - This seems to be a price VWFS can just make up and bully customers into paying.

This would take the total amount payable to £1,052.81

I uploaded the final letter from VWFS with my appeal, along with the images of the alloy wheels and the Cap HPI conditions guide to support my claim.


I found it funny when the VWFS adviser said to me on the phone:

"If you buy a car with a dent and finance it through VWFS, we would expect you to repair that dent as it would fall out of BVRLA inspection standards. The cost of repairing the dent would have been factored into the price of the car at point of sale".

What do you think of that?!

[R0b]

Hi Jazz, thanks for the update. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for the FOS and their decisions but there's not much you can do.

Rather surpised at that response from the VWFS advisor because you are not there to put the car in a better condition, in fact any price of the car or reductions are probably because of the dent not to cover the cost of repairing the dent. Just goes to show they will come out with anything but also there is established case law on this point and confirming that you are only liable for the damage whilst in your possession.

You might not have seen it but the Channel 4 Dispatches documentary makes an interesting find.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/d...mand/66549-003

http://www.channel4.com/info/press/n...ck-of-training

[JazzJPH]

Hi Jazz, thanks for the update. I wouldn't hold out too much hope for the FOS and their decisions but there's not much you can do.

Rather surpised at that response from the VWFS advisor because you are not there to put the car in a better condition, in fact any price of the car or reductions are probably because of the dent not to cover the cost of repairing the dent. Just goes to show they will come out with anything but also there is established case law on this point and confirming that you are only liable for the damage whilst in your possession.

You might not have seen it but the Channel 4 Dispatches documentary makes an interesting find.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/d...mand/66549-003

http://www.channel4.com/info/press/n...ck-of-training

Thanks @R0b

I have been told the ombudsman service is unlikely to help me out, but at least when I finally pay up I can say I put up some sort of fight. They're relentless I'll give them that.

After that's over I just need to look after this car for another 22 months, hand it back and make sure how I purchase/finance my next car isn't as much a nightmare.

[JazzJPH]

Hi everyone.

So it has been 10 months since you heard from me, surely this situation has been resolved? Nope!

I received a letter from the ombudsman in October stating they're looking at all excess mileage claims to ensure consistency in how they handle them.

But then, as if out of nowhere, I received a chaser letter from VWFS just over a week ago. It threatened further action if I didn't pay within 7 days. And today I received the "further action" from a company named Blake Morgan. They have given me 14 days...

This letter from Blake Morgan is pretty big, with possible court action being threatened. It also contains a financial means questionnaire as well as some signature boxes for me to allow them to store my information. Has anyone else experienced this sudden action during an ombudsman complaint?

I've emailed the ombudsman and documented a time line of all emails from ombudsman and VWFS and asked them to do something about this sudden chase from VWFS.

[R0b]

Hi JazzPh

Can you upload the letter redacted with personal info? If VWFS are instructing solicitors they shouldn't be whilst a complaint is ongoing, the FCA CONC rules state that. You might need to respond to Blake Morgan but best to get facts together than send a rushed response

[JazzJPH]

Hi R0b,

Good to see you're still on here. I have seen loads more VT related threads pop up so you're no doubt being kept busy. I've uploaded the redacted letters. Hopefully the resolution isn't too bad (800 pixel limit on uploads). If you can't make it out I'll PM a sharing link.

I haven't been told the case is closed by the ombudsman so I'm not sure why they're chasing me.

[JazzJPH]

Quick update. I spoke to VWFS today regarding the sudden letter-sending exercise they have embarked on.

I was through to Customer Services dept. and got the guy's name. I asked about the letters. He put me on hold and read through my file. He came back and said for me not to worry about the letters as they're automated on the system. He said they have no weight behind them, they're not going to do anything, but they are just automated by the system.
I asked if they're automated on their system, why has a new company (Blake Morgan) sent a letter too? No real answer to that one.

I also asked for confirmation of our conversation via email. He said that he can't, but if I phone back on Monday and speak to the Collections team, I can get confirmation that they are not proceeding pursuit for further funds at this time. He advised that his department can't do that.

Strange really, but he also told me that all calls are recorded by VWFS for 6 years so I can easily get hold of the recordings.

I tried to phone Blake Morgan but they're not open. I sent an email telling them this situation is ongoing with the FOS.

I'm really aiming to come back here when this situation is resolved (either way) so there's a record of a VWFS situation from start to finish. Is there a thread or anything that summarises forum members' cases and highlights main points? If not, it may be a good idea. Then other members and visitors can easily see what has happened.

Anyway, I will try to return when I have something to update with. R0b let me know what you think of those letters and VWFS' comments :-)