Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP! - won

[Davew2811]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Hi Paul, I can see from these that you have the same issues.

For example in PCM_201 The pic is a close up, What it doesn't show is that the sign is over 10 feet high and located inside a raised flower bed (this sign has now been re-located - so if it was 'prominent' then why did they need to relocate it? ) It also doesn't show the Cybertots signs placed at low level.

PCM_203 is NOT the sign they claim you are parked in front of. This one is allegedly at the entrance to the car park which is not visible when you turn into the car park.

PCM_202 - If you take that picture from the entrance to that area, the sign would be obscured by the motor cycle - - this sign has also been re-located

PCM_203 - the wider angle of the signs. this shows that the sign you are allegedly parked in front of is in the background and does help you as you can see it's located behind a tree !

I have plenty of pics that can support your case.

Dave

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

OK. I'll start having a go at putting the evidence together. You mentioned witness statement - is that from my partner? She was driving and there was no one else with her).

PM is easiest.

As for the bad angles, that's what your evidence needs to show.

M1

[rjs]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Slight tangent - There are a couple features common to many of the PCM UK signs that I wonder if they also make it difficult for a contract to be formed, I wonder if these arguments would hold up in court.

Most of their signs have a graphic logo at the top in green and white. The first line of normal print then states "This site is PRIVATE LAND and is managed and operated by PCM (UK) Ltd." Then at very bottom in tiny print it states "Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd." Company Reg no 4395994 Registered in England and Wales" however
1) PCM (UK) Ltd is company number 07949852 while Parking Control Management (UK) Limited is company number 04395994. Which company is trying to make the offer? Who did the driver think they might be entering into a contract with? It's not clear, therefore no meeting of the minds.
2) Stating that the land is "managed and operated by" is probably going too far. Is PCM doing the gardening and rubbish removal etc? Or are they just attempting to manage and operate the parking? In the case of a resident at their leasehold property, they probably know who the landlord or management company is and so any other company claiming to "manage and operate" the site is clearly fabricating stories and PCM's supposed offer can't be taken seriously. It might be more appropriate for PCM to state that they "manage and operate the parking/roadways on behalf of the landlord/management company."

I don't now if these two points would get far in court but the language is common to most PCM signs that I've seen. Hopefully they can help someone.
-Ryan

[Davew2811]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

There's also the fact that The Nursery and also the management company 'Work with PCM to issue tickets to offending vehicles' - They told me that in an email !

Dave

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Happy new year to all who have helped me with this so far. I am working on the witness statement as it needs to be sent to the court and Gladstones by next Wednesday. I'll be posting here for further help and advice as and when needed.

I do have a couple of questions from the off though...

Does the witness statement just contain a summary of what happened from our point of view, or should it include the evidence too?

Also, Dave (who has been very helpful with his photos) mentions above that the nursery and management company 'work with PCM to issue tickets'. Could that have any bearing on the case?

And, I'm fairly sure the wording on the signs in the photos above that I took from the PCM website is slightly different from the wording on the signage they included in their detailed claim pack. Does that give me any angle to argue?

As always, any advice would be much appreciated

[mystery1]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Does the witness statement just contain a summary of what happened from our point of view, or should it include the evidence too?

It can reference evidence too. For example if you were saying "I returned and took photos on xxx (exnibits 1,2,3 etc)

Could that have any bearing on the case?

Not really unless they had asked them to cancel and they didn't.

And, I'm fairly sure the wording on the signs in the photos above that I took from the PCM website is slightly different from the wording on the signage they included in their detailed claim pack. Does that give me any angle to argue?

It depends on when the photos were taken (on both sides). If yours were taken nearer the date in question then they should be given greater weight in evidence than older ones they may supply.

M1

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Thanks M1.

With regards to the signage wording query, the photo on the PCM website which they have there as evidence has different wording to the PDF artwork of the signage they supplied to the court (which I think shows what the signage in place now says). So it is their own evidence they are contradicting.

In the witness statement, should I be concentrating on the same issues as in the defence statement, i.e. that the wording is forbidding and therefore no contract offer can be formed, or can I go into the confusing, poorly located signage positions, changes to signage since the offence took place etc?

[ostell]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Why not both

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

That's what I was wondering. Apart from the wording, the signage was poorly located, and the nursery who the spaces are reserved for actually put smaller signs in front of each bay to say they were reserved at certain times of day, which was misleading too as these were more prominent than the PCM sign which was set back in some bushes by 6ft and about 10ft in the air.

[Davew2811]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

That's what I was wondering. Apart from the wording, the signage was poorly located, and the nursery who the spaces are reserved for actually put smaller signs in front of each bay to say they were reserved at certain times of day, which was misleading too as these were more prominent than the PCM sign which was set back in some bushes by 6ft and about 10ft in the air.

When I was putting my own case together, I pointed out their statement that I was 'parked directly in front of' the sign. I was going to ask, If I was parked directly in front of it then why is their close up a picture of a different sign .. - because they couldn't get close enough to take a photo .. that's why !

It's also unreasonable to expect someone to climb over a wall, a hedge and into a landscaped garden to read a sign. This is obviously why they have moved the sign to a more prominent position .

D

[mystery1]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

If using Daves photos it might be best if he can supply a witness statement of his own to support you.

M1

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

OK, I'll ask Dave personally.

Would you be able to review my first attempt at the statement if I send it over later? If so, what's the best way to send it to you?

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Hi M1, while in the final stages of putting my statement and evidence together, I received an email from Gladstones today attaching their client's Notice of Discontinuance as filed with the court and saying the matter is now closed. A closer look suggests that they may have mistakenly crossed out Defendant instead of Claimant about halfway down, but am I right to think this is case won?

If so, is there any comeback I can put back on them for time spent, worry caused - particularly after my partners mother had just died before the whole court thing kicked off. I've also seen it mentioned that in cases where the defendant has won, they have claimed misuse of DVLA information and won costs of £250 to £750. Is that something that can be or is worth trying?

[rjs]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Have a read of recent articles on the Parking Prankster's blog. He has recently been providing a fair amount of template material concerning violations under the Data Protection Act. Here is a particularly good link:
https://parking-prankster.blogspot.c...scam-site.html

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Have a read of recent articles on the Parking Prankster's blog. He has recently been providing a fair amount of template material concerning violations under the Data Protection Act. Here is a particularly good link:
https://parking-prankster.blogspot.c...scam-site.html

I'm considering it but as the claim never made it to court, how good a case would I have? In the other cases I've read, the judge ruled that there was no contract and therefore the defendant could then claim for data misuse.

Not sure I am in a strong enough position.