Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP! - won

[paul1909uk]

Hi

My partner yesterday received a Claim Form from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton, with regards to a parking ticket from Sainsburys at GWQ in Brentford back in February 2015.

The PCN was put on the car at the time, and as per advice given by several people at the time, the driver ignored it, and the subsequent letters informing us that the fee had gone up and and threatening to escalate the situation. We apparently had a letter recently from Gladstone's solicitors, although due to a family bereavement this month, that letter seems to have been recycled.

I've looked at the PCM(UK) website and they have several photos they took at the time, including one of the sign at the parking bay - see attached. There is also a photo of where the sign is situated in relation to the parking bay itself.

The parking bay is one of seven that are at the entrance to a residential estate, which has a gym, Sainsbury Local, estate agent and a large nursery, so there are constantly cars using these bays.

The reason for posting is that we are going to appeal the claim and will go to court if necessary, but we need advice on what are the next steps to take. We don't believe that charging £100 is a fair cost for using parking bays that are permit only at for four hours a day, 5 days a week.

So far we have not contacted PCM(uk) or any appeal board or anyone else regarding the PCN. Any help would be gratefully received.

[mystery1]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Moan to the Sainburys manager.

File acknowledgement of service.

Sanitised and post the claim form.

M1

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Thanks for the reply.

It's probably a bit late to complain to the Sainsbury manager as the ticket was issued 18 months ago.

And please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is acknowledging the service? And do you think there are any particular areas I should concentrate on when posting the claim form? I think basically I'm asking, is this actually likely to make it to court and if so, how good a chance do we have of winning?

[mystery1]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

It's probably a bit late to complain to the Sainsbury manager as the ticket was issued 18 months ago.

Maybe, maybe not. Only one way to find out !

And please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is acknowledging the service?

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/preparing-f...nt-service-n9/

I think basically I'm asking, is this actually likely to make it to court and if so, how good a chance do we have of winning?

Depends on the claim, the signs, the contract with Sainsburys , whetehr they are chasing the driver or keeper etc

If the claim is as poor as



then chances are good as the claim is technically "crap"

M1

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Ok. The claim looks pretty much identical to that one.

We've also asked around local friends and the consensus is that you can park there outside of the times on the sign which are specified for nursery drop off, which we did. Also, we park there at least once a week and have never received another ticket - which considering they say it's 24hr restrictions is strange.

I believe PCM manage on behalf of the people who manage the residential properties rather than Sainsburys.

As for driver or keeper, they are one and the same in this instance (although they don't know that).

I will put together the defence on the claim over the weekend.

[mystery1]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Don't be hasty. If you file acknowledgement of service you have 33 days in total from the date on the form.

Contact Gladstones and ask them to replead their case as it fails to comply with cpr 16.4 https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...es/part16#16.4 pracitice direction 16 7.5https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr.../pd_part16#7.1

They might not reply but it's part of the longer term strategy of seeming reasonable.

Also get pictures of the signage.

M1

[ostell]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

The sign attached says they are managing on behalf of Cybertots, who I presume to be the nursery. You have to have a Cybertots permit to park there in the 3 times a day restricted time periods. There is not permission for parking by other people at those times so it can only be trespassing. The sign is so unclear that Beavis can't possibly apply. The charge is hidden within the small print and is virtually unreadable.

Do you perchance have the originals that were sent to you by PCM to see what they actually claimed?

Edit: Thinking about it the conditions seem rather strange. Could this be the nursery making sure there is drop off space for customers at busy times but they have no rights to the land and have asked PCM to put up signs anyway and self ticket after that.

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Unfortunately we don't have the original ticket or follow ups, other than the court claim stuff - we've been dealing with a family member's ill health for the past couple of years, so things haven't been as organised as they should be.

When I go on PCMs website it just mentions that the car was parked in a restricted space at 11.17 - outside of the times reserved for Cybertots.

I will try and get more photos of the signage today and post it too.

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

OK. We have completed the acknowledgement of service and will post that today.

For the letter to Gladstones, which we will email, I edited one I found on a different thread, but am not sure about keeping in the bits highlighted in red as the Claim Form does make some mention of interest being claimed and the original amount they are claiming. Should I keep the wording as is, or perhaps replace the bulleted text with something short and simple like:

"After examining your Particulars of Claim I can find no details at all regarding this alleged debt and would ask that you re-plead your case as it currently doesn't comply fully with Civil Procedure Rules, namely 16.4 and practice direction 16 7.5, and that you notify me within 7 days of receipt of this letter of your decision (A copy of which is also being sent to Northampton County Court)."

If you can advise on which wording to send, I would be grateful and will send today.


"In the Northampton County Court
Parking Control Management -v- xxxxxxxxxxx
Claim Number: xxxxxxxxx

1st August 2016

Dear Sirs,
I have recently received a court claim from your organisation dated 26 July 2016.

After examining your Particulars of Claim I can find no details at all regarding this alleged debt and would like to point out the following:-

• The Defendant will object that the Particulars of Claim in this action disclose no reasonable cause of action against the Defendant and makes no allegations against the Defendant as to why the Defendant should be liable to the Claimant for the amount claimed.
• The Particulars of Claim do not comply with the Civil Procedure Rules as (amongst other things) they do not show how the sum of £xxxx was arrived at and the Particulars of Claim are too vague. The Statement of Claim shows no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim.
• The Claimant should, therefore, serve an amended claim to set out the basis in law and fact for their claim as there is no pleaded basis for the claim itself. The Claimant should give full Particulars of the charges they are seeking to recover, identifying each charge, the date and amount of the charge.
• The Defendant should then be given the opportunity to defend the proceedings further.

In view of the above I would ask that you re-plead you case complying fully with Civil Procedure Rules and that you notify me within 7 days of receipt of this letter of your decision (A copy of which is also being sent to Northampton County Court).

If you decide not to re-plead your case I will make an application to Northampton County Court for an order compelling you to re-plead your case

I await your comments.

Yours faithfully"

[mystery1]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

That'll be fine. They'll probably ignore it anyway but we want to be seen to be reasonable.

M1

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Back again - I was on holiday last week but back in the swing again now.

I've sent the acknowledgement of service online, saying that we intend to defend all of the claim. I've also emailed Gladstone solicitors asking that they re-plead the case.

So what happens next?

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

And these are photos of the signage taken this weekend. You will see that the sign where the 'offence' took place now has a sign from the nursery below it, and the other sign is on the other side of the road where there are also parking bays. Note the subtle difference in the wording about being reserved for Cybertots.

[mystery1]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Can you sanitise and post up the PCN ?

M1

[paul1909uk]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

I'm afraid not. When it turned up back on Feb 2015 the general advice we were given was to ignore it. I'd imagine that it was thrown out as were any follow up threatening letters. Neither of us thought it would make it this far and we were dealing with learning that my partner's mother had been diagnosed with terminal cancer so it was completely disregarded.

[mystery1]

Re: Court Claim Form / PCM (UK) Ltd / Brentford Sainsburys - HELP!

Ok, we'll just so what they reply with, or not as the case may be.

M1