CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

[jaisonix]

Hi Everyone

I have used most of the advice submitted online and ignored a parking charge from Civil Enforcement Limited regarding overstaying in a Co-Op parking in 2013. After the Beavis case in which private parking charges were upheld by the supreme court, CEL have decided to issue me with a Northampton County Court claim, which i've defended. I've submitted a defence claiming and proving (with evidence) that the client listed in the case (Co-op) is not pursuing this claim

Furthermore, i challenged the fine, the fees, the circumstances, the contract, and used a lot of advice from these forums to submit my defence to Wandsworth County Court (selected my own court)

Yesterday i have received a CC judgement form N24 (General Form of Judgement of Order) claiming 'The defence discloses no defence in law (see Parking Eye vs Beavis (2015)) EWCA Civil 402) and is accordingly struck out'

I decided to give up and pay, but Civil Enforcement Limited would not accept my payment as it is now payable to DEAL - Debt Enforcement and Action Limited which was not involed in the case as Claimant and i don't have any contact details to them

My questions are as follows:

1. This N24 (CCJ) means that if i pay within a month, i can have it removed from register and it won't be outstanding for 6 years, correct? I read that this should be true
2. As i understand, there is no way i can appeal the decision, only set it aside and claim court error or wrong judgement. Is that right? I really don't want CCJ to be on my name
3. I don't even know how to pay, i will try to find papers from CEL/DEAL but i'm not confident they will tell the court that i have paid, even if i can contact them. When contacting CEL, only an automated payment line is available, and they reject my call playing a message that i have to pay 'DEAL'. Should i seek to prove to court myself if i pay to have CCJ removed from register?
4. Is there any other way to move forward, i imagine this is now a similar case for hundreds of people who received claim forms from CEL submitted to Northampton County Court. Has anyone got experiene of moving beyond the point where i am? Or should i just seek payment and finish this
5. I am not even sure that the Judge at Wandsworth County Court reviewed my case properly. How can i pay the fine when the client 'Co-op' doesn't want it paid? It is listed as the client in court case. Has anyone managed to prove this at CC?

I appreciate any advice

Best Regards
Anthony J

[mystery1]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

If a judge has ruled then the correct avenue is to appeal which has to be done quickly.

You can pay within 28 days which means your credit record is not affected.

If the claimant has replied in writing, refusing your payment because you owe someone else then that is a very interesting scenario.

If interested in winning rather than paying please post all paperwork that you have suitably sanitised.

M1

[jaisonix]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

If a judge has ruled then the correct avenue is to appeal which has to be done quickly.

You can pay within 28 days which means your credit record is not affected.

If the claimant has replied in writing, refusing your payment because you owe someone else then that is a very interesting scenario.

If interested in winning rather than paying please post all paperwork that you have suitably sanitised.

M1

Thank you M1, this is helpful. I have not been informed in writing that CEL refuses payment, i was informed so by telephone (even though they are the claimant). And their client no longer seeks payment at all

I can absolutely send CEL (the claimant) a query or offer of payment by post, and seek to get correspondence in writing about payment options, but i am wondering if i have time (my judgement was 31st July, even though i only received it on 7th August)

Of course i don't want to pay and want to win, but i want to avoid CCJ on my credit file for 6 years. I was really confident that this is bull**** case, submitted to Northampton County Court by a company claiming they are doing so for a client (Co-op) which has told me they are not pursuing this and do not want CEL to manage their affairs anymore (they broke up in 2014 i think). And DEAL is a completely new company, with a 'mailbox' type office on Baker Street, London, and no contact information whatsover

I keep all my files of this case at work and will be able to access them on Monday, i will post copies here then. Including my defence that i have submitted claiming that this is an invoice, there was no contract, contract offer was excessive, client is no longer in pursuit of payment (Co-Op), fees are excessive, company is not excistent managed by the infamous Mr Schwartz which as i read no longer works for them

Thank you again for your first response

[mystery1]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

Thank you M1, this is helpful. I have not been informed in writing that CEL refuses payment, i was informed so by telephone (even though they are the claimant). And their client no longer seeks payment at all

I can absolutely send CEL (the claimant) a query or offer of payment by post, and seek to get correspondence in writing about payment options, but i am wondering if i have time (my judgement was 31st July, even though i only received it on 7th August)

Of course i don't want to pay and want to win, but i want to avoid CCJ on my credit file for 6 years. I was really confident that this is bull**** case, submitted to Northampton County Court by a company claiming they are doing so for a client (Co-op) which has told me they are not pursuing this and do not want CEL to manage their affairs anymore (they broke up in 2014 i think). And DEAL is a completely new company, with a 'mailbox' type office on Baker Street, London, and no contact information whatsover

I keep all my files of this case at work and will be able to access them on Monday, i will post copies here then. Including my defence that i have submitted claiming that this is an invoice, there was no contract, contract offer was excessive, client is no longer in pursuit of payment (Co-Op), fees are excessive, company is not excistent managed by the infamous Mr Schwartz which as i read no longer works for them

Thank you again for your first response

You can pay AND appeal as Barry Beavis has done. The best thing in my opinion is to send a cheque to CEL and hope they return it giving weight to your appeal based on them not actually being owed money. This gives them a huge headache if they actually submitted a summary judgement application if your defence is ok.

I'll be back at work Tuesday for 3 days so early Monday would be helpful

M1

[jaisonix]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

Great, i will try to post what i have

Ok, so will absolutely be happy to pay AND appeal! Of course i am worried that CEL/DEAL if they accept payment won't inform court to remove the CCJ from register, being useless as they are, but i believe i can do so myself with £15 court fee and proof of payment, right?

So if i pay AND appeal (does that mean i ask for Court to set aside judgement under Part 23 rule 10 that the judgment order is quoting)? And then send reasons to court for objection, pay the £155 court fee, right?

And still have grounds to pursue this appeal, even though i have paid (does that mean i accepted my liability)? As i understand from your message above, this is fine

What about the CCJ on my credit file? I am happy to continue this on Monday upon posting my defence and other correspondence. So as to not ask too many questions now (it is playing with my mind now)

[jaisonix]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

Hi Everyone

I have used most of the advice submitted online and ignored a parking charge from Civil Enforcement Limited regarding overstaying in a Co-Op parking in 2013. After the Beavis case in which private parking charges were upheld by the supreme court, CEL have decided to issue me with a Northampton County Court claim, which i've defended. I've submitted a defence claiming and proving (with evidence) that the client listed in the case (Co-op) is not pursuing this claim

Best Regards
Anthony J

I have been informed that the case is still pending at the Supreme Court, so it was only upheld by Court of Appeal

[mystery1]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

Ok, so will absolutely be happy to pay AND appeal! Of course i am worried that CEL/DEAL if they accept payment won't inform court to remove the CCJ from register, being useless as they are, but i believe i can do so myself with £15 court fee and proof of payment, right?

Only if you need to, which you shouldn't.

So if i pay AND appeal (does that mean i ask for Court to set aside judgement under Part 23 rule 10 that the judgment order is quoting)? And then send reasons to court for objection, pay the £155 court fee, right?

Much depends on what has happened, why it did etc.

Did you get notified of a SJ hearing ? Did you attend ? (if not you should have 7 days to set aside or vary if yes you need to appeal)

And still have grounds to pursue this appeal, even though i have paid (does that mean i accepted my liability)? As i understand from your message above, this is fine

You are paying because the court told you too (as well as self preservation re credit report) and taking action because you disagree with the verdict. No problem with that.

What about the CCJ on my credit file?

http://www.trustonline.org.uk/faqs-help
How can I remove my County Court judgment held on the England and Wales Register?A judgment registration is only removed because it was:
a) entered in error,
b) paid before the court date,
c) cancelled because full repayment was made within one calendar month of the judgment date
If judgment was entered in error, application must be made to the court to have the judgment set aside for which a court fee of £155 is payable (payable to HMCTS). If granted the court should notify us to remove the judgment from the register.
From 6th April 2006 when the court are provided with evidence that a judgment debt has been paid in full either before registration or within one calendar month of the judgment date the registration will be cancelled and removed from the register once we have been notified by the court.
You may also apply in writing to the relevant court for a Certificate of Cancellation enclosing:
a) evidence that the debt has been fully repaid with one calendar month of the date of the judgment
b) a statement advising that reasonable steps have been taken to obtain such evidence but you have been unable to do so,
c) a statement advising that you believe the evidence of payment within one calendar month of the date of judgment is already held at the court; and the court fee of £15 (cheque payable to HMCTS)

I have been informed that the case is still pending at the Supreme Court, so it was only upheld by Court of Appeal

The info is correct but pretty trivial for your circumstances at the moment.

M1

[jaisonix]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

Did you get notified of a SJ hearing ? Did you attend ? (if not you should have 7 days to set aside or vary if yes you need to appeal)

M1

Thanks for your last reply

I was not notified of a hearing (therefore not had a chance to attend, which i would have wanted). It took 7 days for decision to arrive, but if i still have time then i would like to set it aside on these grounds

So ideally (on Monday), i can pay the claimant, set aside a judgement based on grounds that i was not given a chance to attend a SJ hearing, or if that is not successful, i can appeal (whichever route i take, i need to pay the £155 fee?). Would that fee get returned to me (or i can claim it from CEL if i won the appeal? The total claim is for £215

[jaisonix]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

Not sure if these links will work (i found my defence on work laptop)


https://www.scribd.com/doc/273967913...p-22nd-May-pdf

https://www.scribd.com/doc/273968541...p-8th-June-pdf

[mystery1]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

Thanks for your last reply

I was not notified of a hearing (therefore not had a chance to attend, which i would have wanted). It took 7 days for decision to arrive, but if i still have time then i would like to set it aside on these grounds

So ideally (on Monday), i can pay the claimant, set aside a judgement based on grounds that i was not given a chance to attend a SJ hearing, or if that is not successful, i can appeal (whichever route i take, i need to pay the £155 fee?). Would that fee get returned to me (or i can claim it from CEL if i won the appeal? The total claim is for £215

You don't have to pay but it may make it easier. I wouldn't rush to do so immediately if you can't really afford it. 3 weeks after judgement should suffice.

If a hearing has taken place for an application without your knowledge then it should give 7 days to set aside or vary from when you got it (or should have if the actual date is unclear). Any idea when it was posted ?

Do you qualify for fee remission ? http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.u...ex160a-eng.pdf

It will be a n244 form you'll need if it's a set aside or variation (which it sounds like it probably will be).


Looking at your defence, it appears you sent 2 letters when you should have sent a defence in this format http://www.compactlaw.co.uk/free-leg...t.html#Defence

You haven't mentioned DEAL ?

Is there any info on the judges order which indicates 1. that the defence was seen ? 2. Whether the format of the defence was rejected ? 3. Whether the court decided on it's own motion ? 4. Whether the claimant made an application ?

M1

[jaisonix]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

You don't have to pay but it may make it easier. I wouldn't rush to do so immediately if you can't really afford it. 3 weeks after judgement should suffice.

If a hearing has taken place for an application without your knowledge then it should give 7 days to set aside or vary from when you got it (or should have if the actual date is unclear). Any idea when it was posted ?

Do you qualify for fee remission ? http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.u...ex160a-eng.pdf

It will be a n244 form you'll need if it's a set aside or variation (which it sounds like it probably will be).


Looking at your defence, it appears you sent 2 letters when you should have sent a defence in this format http://www.compactlaw.co.uk/free-leg...t.html#Defence

You haven't mentioned DEAL ?

Is there any info on the judges order which indicates 1. that the defence was seen ? 2. Whether the format of the defence was rejected ? 3. Whether the court decided on it's own motion ? 4. Whether the claimant made an application ?

M1

Trouble is DEAL had nothing to do with it. I wasn't aware my case was dealt with by DEAL as CEL contacted me, raised and acted upon this claim the whole time

Indeed I should have followed up to see if my defence was received, that will be a lesson for the future

The judge's order indicates very little beneath the original quote which I posted

Then there are directions as to how to have it stayed and that's it

[mystery1]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

Trouble is DEAL had nothing to do with it. I wasn't aware my case was dealt with by DEAL as CEL contacted me, raised and acted upon this claim the whole time

Indeed I should have followed up to see if my defence was received, that will be a lesson for the future

The judge's order indicates very little beneath the original quote which I posted

Then there are directions as to how to have it stayed and that's it

Did you ever get one of these Letter_6 (1).pdf ?

Once you post everything tomorrow we'll get the application sorted.

M1

[jaisonix]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

Did you ever get one of these Letter_6 (1).pdf ?

Once you post everything tomorrow we'll get the application sorted.

M1

In my next response i will include attachments to the following documents that i have received this year. If i have received Letter 6 (1) in 2013 upon receiving and ignoring original 'PCN' invoice, i do not recall doing so.

Since 22nd May 2015, i have received:

1. Claim Form In the Northampton County Court (N1/CPR Part 7) signed by Claiman'ts solicitor Mr M Schwartz
2. Copy of directions and forms from HM Courts & Tribunal Service to respond and reading 'YOUR RESPONSE TO THIS CLAIM/THE ACTION YOU SHOULD TAKE' to which i have chosen 'A Defence in reply ot the attached claim'
3. A copy of letter from The Co-Operative to Civil Enforcement Limited stating they were authorised to issue 'PCN' invoices
4. A separate letter from Civil Enforcement Limited addressed to me which stated that CEL had authority to issue 'PCN's again attaching another copy of 3. Co-Op letter as referenced in my previous point
5. A Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track (N149A) stating that 'This is now a defended claim', 'The Defedant has filed a defence, a copy of which is enclosed' with a directions questionnaire N180 which i have filled in specifying Wandsworth County Court and returned to Small Claims Track in Salford
6. What i referenced on Saturday which is of course the N24 General Form of Judgement of Order

I am now scanning and will be uploading these in a minute

[jaisonix]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis

http://s24.postimg.org/wclcl3dg5/1_Claim_Form_N1.png
http://s11.postimg.org/6nwcp6gyb/2_Claim_Form_N1.png
http://s24.postimg.org/a3c0sa7dh/3_G...nt_with_N1.png
http://s3.postimg.org/j22r560kj/4_Gu...nt_with_N1.png
http://s9.postimg.org/9xpxt77u7/5_Co...nt_with_N1.png
http://s24.postimg.org/awomkwded/6_N..._Small_Cla.png
http://s18.postimg.org/p0pvgx0bt/7_D...naire_N180.png
http://s7.postimg.org/l2qc70pkr/8_Di...naire_N180.png
http://s29.postimg.org/ye23029zb/9_D...naire_N180.png
http://s18.postimg.org/3tm4swnop/10_CEL_Letter.png
http://s30.postimg.org/77wtig4mp/11_Judgement_N24.png

Please let me know what you think, thank you M1

[mystery1]

Re: CEL (DEAL) CCJ received after submitting defence quoting Parking Eye vs Beavis




Service is deemed on 4th August and you get 7 days to set aside or vary. So we need to do so today or tomorrow.

http://legalbeagles.info/library/how...-judgment-ccj/


Your witness statement should include the attempt to pay a subsequent refusal as CEL doesn't in fact own the debt because DEAL does.

Have a go yourself and post it up for analysis.

You can email it to the court anytime but can only pay by phone until 15.45 each day.

M1