London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

[mystery1]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

Ok, they haven't put PoFA down this time, so a bit more complicated.

Were you still a leaseholder and what did the lease say about parking ?

M1

[Jemmak210315]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

What's a leaseholder? I can take a picture of the sign of that helps to show what you need to see?

[mystery1]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

"The management agent of my block of flats"

Did you own or rent the property ?

Either way you must have a contract for the property giving you certain rights. What the contract says about parking is important.

M1

[Jemmak210315]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

Tenancy states that no parking is available at the property even though there was at first (albeit not allocated), then they took it away by putting these signs up.

[mystery1]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

https://www.theias.org/faqs

You have 10 working days to submit your written representations and upload all evidence supporting your appeal.


I shall do this Early in the week as i'm working tomorrow and have been all weekend.

M1

[Jemmak210315]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

Thank you

[mystery1]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

I wish to appeal, as registered keeper, as follows.Keeper liability.




The operators primia facie case states that "the appellant is the keeper" " a notice to keeper was sent"

The notice to keeper says "Warn the keeper that if the parking charge remains unpaid after a period of 28days and the creditor does not know both the name of driver and currentaddress for service of the driver, the creditor will have the right to recover fromthe keeper the amount of the charge remaining unpaid." It aslo states this is because PoFA 2012 gives that right.

It is clear that the operator is using PoFA 2012 schedule 4.




The protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 allows the opportunity for parking companies liable for the actions of the driver but only if full compliance is achieved. In the case of an ANPR situation compliance with section 9 is required.


Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle


4(1)The creditor has the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle.
(2)The right under this paragraph applies only if—
(a)the conditions specified in paragraphs 5, 6, 11 and 12 (so far as applicable) are met ....


6(1)The second condition is that the creditor (or a person acting for or on behalf of the creditor)—




(a)has given a notice to driver in accordance with paragraph 7, followed by a notice to keeper in accordance with paragraph 8;


7(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to driver for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.


(2)The notice must—


(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;


(b)inform the driver of the requirement to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and describe those charges, the circumstances in which the requirement arose (including the means by which it was brought to the attention of drivers) and the other facts that made those charges payable;


(c)inform the driver that the parking charges relating to the specified period of parking have not been paid in full and specify the total amount of the unpaid parking charges relating to that period, as at a time which is—


(i)specified in the notice; and


(ii)no later than the time specified under paragraph (f);


(d)inform the driver of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;


(e)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment may be made;


(f)specify the time when the notice is given and the date.


(3)The notice must relate only to a single period of parking specified under sub-paragraph (2)(a) (but this does not prevent the giving of separate notices each specifying different parts of a single period of parking).


(4)The notice must be given—


(a)before the vehicle is removed from the relevant land after the end of the period of parking to which the notice relates, and


(b)while the vehicle is stationary,


by affixing it to the vehicle or by handing it to a person appearing to be in charge of the vehicle.
(5)In sub-paragraph (2)(d) the reference to arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints includes—


(a)any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally with representations by the driver about the notice or any matter contained in it; and


(b)any arrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described) may be referred by the driver to independent adjudication or arbitration.


8(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.


(2)The notice must—


(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;


(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;


(c)state that a notice to driver relating to the specified period of parking has been given and repeat the information in that notice as required by paragraph 7(2)(b), (c) and (f);


(d)if the unpaid parking charges specified in that notice to driver as required by paragraph 7(2)(c) have been paid in part, specify the amount that remains unpaid, as at a time which is—


(i)specified in the notice to keeper, and


(ii)no later than the end of the day before the day on which the notice is either sent by post or, as the case may be, handed to or left at a current address for service for the keeper (see sub-paragraph (4));


(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—


(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or


(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;


(f)warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—


(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and


(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,


the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;
(g)inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;

(h)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made;


(i)specify the date on which the notice is sent (if it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).


(3)The notice must relate only to a single period of parking specified under sub-paragraph (2)(a) (but this does not prevent the giving of separate notices which each specify different parts of a single period of parking).


(4)The notice must be given by—


(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or


(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.


(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.


(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.


(7)When the notice is given it must be accompanied by any evidence prescribed under paragraph 10.


(8)In sub-paragraph (2)(g) the reference to arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints includes—


(a)any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally with representations by the keeper about the notice or any matter contained in it; and


(b)any arrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described) may be referred by the keeper to independent adjudication or arbitration.









If the operator is relying on paragraph 8 of PoFA then the requirements have not been met.


There is no period of parking, merely a specific time. The statutory warning in 8 (1) (f) is incorrect as it only offers 28 days and does not allow time for the notice to be given which is at least 2 days as per the act. No notice to driver was received.








The notice to keeper being flawed means the operator cannot rely on Pofa as they state and with the drivers identity being unknown the charge should be cancelled.



M1

[Jemmak210315]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

Thank you will keep you posted

[mystery1]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

The protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 allows the opportunity for parking companies liable for the actions of the driver but only if full compliance is achieved. In the case of an ANPR situation compliance with section 9 is required.

That should actually say 8. Change it if you can but it shouldn't cause much of an issue.

M1

[Jemmak210315]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

I can't login and resubmit I'm afraid, hopefully it won't affect it too much :/

[mystery1]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

It's a typo, they probably won't notice anyway.

M1

[Jemmak210315]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

Hi there, the IAS have dismissed my appeal and given the below comments:

"The notice to driver - the original parking charge - was attached to the vehicle at the time of the contravention. If this is not responded to, as in this case, then the operator makes application to the DVLA for the keeper's details. The operator then waits for a response from the DVLA. These applications can take some time. The notice to keeper is then sent to the appellant. There is no contravention the Protection of Freedoms Act. The appellant has not given a reason as to why no permit was displayed. Her vehicle is parked next to a notice clearly displaying the terms. This appeal is dismissed. "

The statement about the original PCN being attached to my car is false, as there was never anything attached to my car. Is there any further I can take this appeal?

Thanks

[mystery1]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

Hi there, the IAS have dismissed my appeal and given the below comments:

"The notice to driver - the original parking charge - was attached to the vehicle at the time of the contravention. If this is not responded to, as in this case, then the operator makes application to the DVLA for the keeper's details. The operator then waits for a response from the DVLA. These applications can take some time. The notice to keeper is then sent to the appellant. There is no contravention the Protection of Freedoms Act. The appellant has not given a reason as to why no permit was displayed. Her vehicle is parked next to a notice clearly displaying the terms. This appeal is dismissed. "

The statement about the original PCN being attached to my car is false, as there was never anything attached to my car. Is there any further I can take this appeal?

Thanks

Sadly, not really. You could refuse to pay as the decision is not binding on you. We did say that no notice to driver was issued which they appear to have ignored. I guess you could email and complain but i really don't see that being in any way effective.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...1_archive.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...edibility.html

M1

[Jemmak210315]

Re: London parking solutions PCN HELP!!! 3/4 won 1/4 undecided.

Ok thank you for your help