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'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

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  • #16
    Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

    Hi mystery1

    LPS has sent back the following missive (uncorrected by me). I wonder if you could advise me what to do next.

    Kindest regards
    Minxi

    Good Afternnon,

    Thank you for your recent email the contents of which we note.


    For the avoidance of doubt, our Client; London Parking Solutions have a signed contract from the Landowners (DMG Block Management) of South City Court, Peckham to operate and enforce parking control measures at the site.


    As part of the parking measures in place, residents are required to clearly display a valid parking permit at all times whilst using the car park.


    Whilst the comments that you have raised have no bearing on this matter, for the purposes of completeness, we shall address each point raised;


    1) Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss


    The amount claimed is for a breach of the contractual relationship between yourself and London Parking Solutions, who act as agent for the landowners. By parking at the site and not abiding by the displayed terms and conditions of parking, you have agreed to pay the Operator a core price term.


    Notwithstanding the above, even if it was a penalty clause, the recent case of Beavis and Parking Eye (Court of Appeal February 2015 - Judgement handed down in April 2015) has made it clear that such clauses are enforceable in breach of contract unless the amount claimed is unconscionable. As the amounts claimed here are similar to those considered reasonable by the Court of Appeal, the issue of GPEOL is irrelevant.


    2) You are absolutely correct insomuch as you are under no statutory obligation to name the driver at the time of this parking event.


    On 14 April 2015 however a Notice to Keeper letter was sent to you as the registered keeper of the material vehicle. As you may or may not be aware, under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and in particular Schedule 4 of the same, a creditor may seek to recover outstanding Parking Charge Notices ("PCN") from the registered keeper of a vehicle, providing that certain criteria has been met.


    Having reviewed this matter, we are entirely satisfied that our Notice to Keeper has been sent in accordance with POFA 2012, and therefore, as the registered keeper of the material vehicle, liability lies with you.


    3) As stated in paragraph one (1) above, whilst you may be a leaseholder at South City Court, the site is owned and managed by DMG Block Management. As such, our Client is entitled to operate at the site in accordance with the terms and conditions of their contract with DMG.


    Lastly, we note that your emails are unsigned/not named, and as such, we are unable to log your email as a formal appeal. In the event that you wish to make use of our internal appeals procedure, we would urge you to s_ubmit a formal challenge/appeal which includes your full name and correspondence address. This information needs to be with us on or before 12 May 2015. In the absence of such an appeal, it is our instruction to pursue the remaining balance, and this may include (but not be limited too), passing your details onto a Collections Agency for the purposes of recovery.



    We trust the above addresses your points, but should you require any further information, please don't hesitate to contact us.



    Regards
    Vicky.
    PCN Parking Solutions

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

      Since they are arseholes and the secondary appeals service they offer is about as much use as a kick in the nuts i'd contact the Landowners (DMG Block Management) of South City Court, Peckham and ask why you paid for the land and they are contracting people to stop you using what you paid for.

      See what they do and then initiate further appeals if required. If the Landowners (DMG Block Management) of South City Court, Peckham gave you the rights of the land then they can't give them to someone else too. Utterly bonkers.

      M1

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

        Thanks.

        Okay, I'll send D&G an email to ask precisely that question, and I'll post it here.

        Cheers
        Minxi

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

          Here's what I've sent, no mention of the reasons why, just to see what they say:

          Hi D&G

          Could you please confirm that, having paid for same in addition to the purchase price of the property at flat XXX, I have the rights to the land at space XX within the South City Court car park.


          I'd be grateful for a swift and precise response.


          Kindest regards
          (Minxi)
          Flat XXX
          South City Court

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

            Hi Mystery once again.

            Here is the text of the letter D&G (uncorrected by me) sent to inform us of their intent to use LPS. I wonder if it reveals anything to your expert eye (I note she uses the phrase 'Penalty Charge Notice', for example):

            I am writing to all Leaseholders with regards to your allocated parking space at the above mentioned property.

            After receiving numerous complaints of non-residents using the car park or residents not parking within their allocated space we have now instructed an external company to patrol the car park.

            London Parking Solutions is the ticketing company we have selected and they will carry out 24hour patrols within the car park.

            We enclose with this letter your permit for your allocated space and this will need to be displayed on the dashboard in clear view for the patrol officer to see. If this permit is lost, LPS will charge a fee of £15 for a replacement permit, please contact D&G Block Management to arrange replacement.

            If a Penalty Charge Notice is issued due to failure to display a permit or parking in the incorrect bay then this is payable directly to LPS. Should you wish to dispute it, you will need to contact LPS directly.

            We are sending the permits to all Leaseholders so if you let your property please ensure you provide your tenant with this to prevent incurring fines.

            The ticketing patrols will be effective from 1st December and all permits will need to be clearly displayed from this date.

            I thank you in advance for your co-operation.

            Yours sincerely
            Hayley Moore
            Property Administrator

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

              Nothing in that. After Beavis, at least until the supreme court, penalties don't really matter as a word.

              A couple of years ago MR Davey took UKPC to court and got £150 for the trespass on his property in a similar scenario. Ukpc also had to pay £1k+ in costs.

              If the lease gives you the land and places no restrictions on you (use a permit) then they are pissing in the wind.

              M1

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

                Thanks M1

                When the (incredibly crap) management people come back I will post up their reply.

                Minxi.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

                  Hi mystery1. Here's what I have back so far from the managing agent re land rights. Please see the original mail below:

                  Dear (Minxi),

                  Please be advised that I am the property manager for SCC. I can confirm that space 61 is allocated to you.

                  Kind regards,
                  Kerry


                  (in response to)

                  Hi Hayley


                  Can I please have a response.



                  Kindest regards


                  Original message----
                  From : (minxi)
                  Date : 30/04/2015 - 17:51 (GMTDT)
                  To : hmoore@dngbm.co.uk
                  Subject : Parking space 61

                  Hi D&G


                  Could you please confirm that, having paid for same in addition to the purchase price of the property at flat XXX, I have the rights to the land at space XXwithin the XXXX car park.



                  I'd be grateful for a swift and precise response.



                  Kindest regards

                  Minxi

                  Flat XXX etc

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

                    Followed by:

                    Apologies, I’m not sure what you mean by this. Did you pay separately for your parking space? And for what purpose are you asking? You do have the right to park a vehicle in this space to the exclusion of any other party.

                    Thanks,
                    Kerry

                    From: minxi
                    Sent: 07 May 2015 11:52
                    To: Kerry Hatcher
                    Subject: Re: FW: Parking space

                    Hi Kerry


                    Thanks for getting back, but that wasn't the question.



                    Can you please confirm that, having paid for same, I have the rights to the land at parking space 61, and indeed to the exclusion of any other party.



                    Kindest regards

                    Minxi

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

                      Next email.

                      Thanks for that. Just to be clear, i have exclusive access to that space with no restriction ? If so please explain why you have given a right to London Parking Solutions to ticket my vehicle in my space to which i have exclusive rights and no contractual obligation to display a permit ?

                      M1

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

                        Most kind. Will advise as and when.

                        Minxi.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

                          Latest in follows. Please note I have never been required to display a permit until the property managers entered into the contract with LPS, nor was I consulted regarding the contract. (I did receive a letter after the fact, however. I bought the parking space for £2000 at the same time I bought my flat, with the leasehold presumably extending to cover both items:

                          So far as I am aware you have always had to display a permit in your vehicle and they or another have always ticketed the spaces to the front of the building. It is my understanding that prior to my involvement with the block there were a lot of issues with parking and the property managers were wasting a lot of valuable time in dealing with this that could have been spent on more pressing matters.

                          They entered into a contract with London Parking Solutions to try and mediate the situation, which so far appears to be relatively successful, and new permits were issued to all.

                          What was the premium you paid for your space and were there any terms & conditions included that make you exempt from such enforcements?

                          Kind regards,
                          Kerry

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

                            With all due respect practice is irrelevant. I want to know what gives YOU the right to give rights to the land to two different contracts. My contract does not state that i have to display a permit and as i am the person the land is contracted i wish to know under what right, in law, they are operating. I am the landholder and i didn't give them permission.

                            I am considering reporting the matter as harassment and potentially launching a civil claim against them and yourselves so i would like to make sure that i am correct. What legal right do they have to my land ?

                            M1

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

                              Many thanks

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: 'PCN' from London Parking Solutions

                                Hi Mystery1

                                Here is the latest response, which took them a while to concoct. I suspect they had a word with legal before replying. I will post the text, and then I will write out verbatim for you what I think is the relevant part of my lease. Here goes:

                                Hi Paul,

                                Your lease gives you rights to use one car parking space as allocated by the Freeholder. The Freeholder has allocated each Leaseholder with 1 space, for you have been allocated park 61. This provides you with rights to use the space within car park 61, but not ownership of the land.

                                The permit system came about as a direct result of complaints we received from residents about incorrect parking. On behalf of the Freeholder, we engaged the services of London Parking Solutions to in order to help protect each leaseholder’s right to a park as per their allocation. We have written to all leaseholders many times explaining this, and we have experienced 7 successful months of the new system.

                                Although displaying a permit may prove a small inconvenience, we hope the system proves a pragmatic way of managing and protecting each leaseholders interest in the car park.

                                Kind Regards,
                                Kerry


                                And the lease wording:

                                7. If the expression "the Parking Spaces" is defined in clause 1 of this Lease (but only if it is so defined)

                                (a) the exclusive right to park one private motor vehicle in each such parking space BUT nothing in this Lease shall imply the right to use such parking spaces unless and until the Landlord shall give notice to the Tenant that it is or they are ready for use by the Tenant and the Landlord covenants with the Tenant to serve the notice referred to in this clause as soon as the Parking Space is ready for use

                                (b) to pass and repass with such private motor vehicles (insofar as may be applicable) or on foot over the accessways forming part of the Estate and the Parking Area and the approaches and ramps leading thereto.


                                Phew. That's it.

                                Minxi.

                                Comment

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