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Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

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  • Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

    Hi!
    I've never looked for this (very useful!) sort of site before...until today, when I received a PCN from Smart Parking Ltd (smartparking.com) regarding a visit a driver of one of my cars made to one of their car parks in Inverness on 19th December 2015.
    First of all - "If payment of £60.00 is not received within 14 days of the date of this notice the discount period expires leaving £100.00 to be paid." The date of notice is 25/12/2015, so they calculate this as 07/01/2016. Of course, they have NOT given me 14 days, as the notice only just arrived.
    The facts; the driver parked in their car park on the evening of 19th December, to meet my son coming from a coach. We have visited this car park many times before with no problems. If the driver was going to stay a while, the driver would buy a ticket. If the driver was just picking up or dropping off my son, they wouldn't. This particular evening, with adjacent shops closed (20:25:42 to 20:47:59, they state, with pictures), the driver arrived a little early and just stayed with the car, engine running, waiting for my son. The driver never noticed anything unusual or different about the car park.
    It's only after receiving the PCN today, and while dropping off my son (I parked in a different car park today!) that I noticed, on walking to the car park, it has been taken over by Smart Parking and there is a totally new machine into which you have to enter your reg. The last time I'd used the car park it was like any other car park where you just pop in the appropriate amount of money for the time you wish to stay - and you get a ticket.
    On the evening of 19th December, there seemed nothing different - no clearly visible new signs and although the driver drove past the new machine and sign, they are a little way off to the left while driving round the car park and the driver didn't notice anything new.
    I've attached a pic of the notice next to the new machine - as you can see, it's only 50p per hour which, IIRC, is actually *LESS* than it used to cost! If the driver had seen the notice, then it's a no-brainer to pay the charge.
    So - what do you reckon is my best course of action? At first, I thought "it's a fair cop, guv", but the more I think about it, the more it seems like purely a way to scam motorists into paying a totally disproportionate charge - especially when stores are shut, so there's no way anyone could be making money from the car park (apart from Smart Parking, of course...).
    Cheers and TIA
    Attached Files
    Last edited by shopping; 5th January 2016, 09:38:AM. Reason: Making information anonymous...
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

    POFA does not apply in Scotland therefore there is no keeper liability. Either ignore or suggest that they chase the keeper as there is no keeper liability.

    As a matter of interest what was the time between parking and receiving the letter? Sounds as though it could be more than 14 days anyway.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

      Originally posted by ostell View Post
      POFA does not apply in Scotland therefore there is no keeper liability. Either ignore or suggest that they chase the keeper as there is no keeper liability.

      As a matter of interest what was the time between parking and receiving the letter? Sounds as though it could be more than 14 days anyway.
      Thanks - that's great to know. Should I register an appeal saying I won't name the driver?
      Date of parking - 19th December 2015
      Date on PCN (through post, to keeper - me) - 25th December 2015
      Receipt of PCN - 4th January 2016 - so, yes, I did receive the letter after 14 days.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

        The time thing was just to check that even if POFA was applicable would they have got the notice to you in time. The answer is no. Looks like they tried to pretend that they did by dating the letter 25 December. How Smart are they!

        Does the letter make any mention of you being liable under POFA? If it does then take it to the Scottish equivalent of Trading Standards. I think Inverness have taken Smart to task before but every little helps.

        You are not appealing, you are telling them to go away as keeper liability does not apply in Scotland. Continuing letters from them will be treated as harassment.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

          OK.
          No mention of POFA - see attachments.
          I used the word 'appeal' as that is a word they mention "...you wish to provide the drivers details (sic), lodge a dispute, appeal or query...".
          I don't like 'just ignoring things', although I've been known to in the past - I'd rather just tell them I'm not willing to provide the driver's details *and* their 'Parking Charge Notice - Do Not Ignore' arrived after the statutory 14 day limit - would that be suitable wording? Oh yes - and that any other contact from them would be viewed as harassment.
          Thanks for your help - most appreciated :-)
          Attached Files

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

            No appeal, a straight letter telling then that they can not hold the keeper liable in Scotland and go away and not bother you anymore. There is no POFA therefore no 14 day limit so no need to mention.

            For stirring purposes you could ask the DVLA why they released you data when the event happened in Scotland.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

              http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/loc...-case-1.884606

              Stick it in a drawer and ignore. You'll get a few more letters with larger amounts and scary red writing from Smart, debt collectors etc which should also be placed in a drawer. Eventually these letters will get scarce. They may try again when the 5 years limitation period draws near.

              Tell them nothing at all. Only court papers need an answer. (threats don't)

              M1

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

                Hi M1 - I take your points on board, but I'm not comfortable with 'scary red writing' and debt collectors, etc....even when I know I'm in the right, it rattles me and makes me unhappy. I'll acknowledge their concern, tell them they have no right to pursue and not to bother me again. Then in my mind it's wrapped up and I can safely ignore any other rubbish they send through.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

                  ...then again, I suppose they'll just ignore what I tell 'em and hassle me anyway...
                  I've been taking a look around other threads and this looks an interesting one... http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ghlight=beavis ... so maybe I'll just ignore it totally, as you suggest. Sort of goes against the grain a bit - but so does a sixty/hundred quid parking charge! It sounds so ridiculous writing it down....
                  Thx again

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

                    I note that Smart Parking post this on their website..... a piece of information that studiously avoids Scotland...
                    I wasn’t the driver, therefore I will not be paying the PCN?

                    Paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, states for parking events in England & Wales that the operator must inform the registered keeper that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay the PCN in full. It also notes that, as the operator does not know the driver’s name or current postal address, the registered keeper, if they were not the driver at the time, should inform the operator of the name and current postal address of the driver and pass the notice to them.
                    The Act also warns that if, after 29 days, the PCN has not been paid in full and the operator does not know both the name and current address of the driver, they have the right to recover any unpaid part of the PCN from the registered keeper. This warning is given under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to the operator complying with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that Act.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

                      Also lies in that it states the keeper should inform them of the driver.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

                        Although not relevant in my (Scottish) case - am I wrong in thinking that in England and Wales the registered keeper has a duty to inform the operator of the driver - otherwise the registered keeper will incur the wrath of the operator? Or are you just saying that the registered keeper is *not* obliged to divulge the identity of the driver - in which case, the wrath falls upon the registered keeper?
                        Any road up (I come from Lancashire originally...) - I've now reached the conclusion they don't have a leg to stand on - legally or morally, so I'm not even going to fill in their 'appeal' form - I looked at it - whatever you wish to say to them, it's on their 'appeal' form. As you say, I'm certainly not 'appealing' to them (or their 'good nature'!), so stuff 'em. :-)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

                          am I wrong in thinking that in England and Wales the registered keeper has a duty to inform the operator of the driver - otherwise the registered keeper will incur the wrath of the operator?
                          They have NO duty but can be held liable for the drivers actions.

                          Or are you just saying that the registered keeper is *not* obliged to divulge the identity of the driver - in which case, the wrath falls upon the registered keeper?
                          Correct, but only IF they comply with the legal requirements of PoFA.

                          I've now reached the conclusion they don't have a leg to stand on - legally or morally, so I'm not even going to fill in their 'appeal' form - I looked at it - whatever you wish to say to them, it's on their 'appeal' form. As you say, I'm certainly not 'appealing' to them (or their 'good nature'!), so stuff 'em. :-)
                          TFFT.

                          M1

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

                            ....and.....the first threatening letter. A disappointing lack of 'red' - I suppose that's still to come! Wife got worried...I shall chill :-) And prepare a drawer...

                            Cheers
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Hello - and Smart Parking PCN...

                              Hi again,

                              Wifey's now getting seriously rattled - 2nd letter has just arrived from Debt Recovery Plus. Taking another look round Legalbeagles I see M1 gave some advice to another, saying contact DRP and info@smartparking.com, as follows;

                              "Dear Sirs,

                              I have today received a letter from DRP regarding an apparent parking charge notice. This letter today is the first i have heard of the matter and as registered keeper i note that this contravenes the statutory requirements of the protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 for keeper liability.
                              I would appeal as registered keeper but note that there appears to be no option to do so. In light of this please contact the driver.
                              Yours etc
                              They will not help but you've marked their card.
                              M1"

                              I know the general advice is "ignore and forget" - but - would it not make them give up now (rather than later) if I sent them an email/letter saying the following (or similar)?

                              "Dear Sirs,
                              I have today received a further letter from DRP regarding a parking charge notice. As registered keeper I note that this contravenes the statutory requirements of the protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 for keeper liability.
                              I would appeal as registered keeper but note that there appears to be no option to do so. In light of this please contact the driver and please discontinue this harrassment.
                              Yours etc"

                              Yours with a degree of nervousness...

                              Addition - I've just been reading Marylou's case, where the original debt collection agency apparently transferred the debt to a second debt collection agency; the amounts went up and down....what a joke! I'd still prefer to knock it on the 'ead now if at all possible, though...
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by shopping; 19th February 2016, 11:57:AM. Reason: Additional information

                              Comment

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