Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

[MadRed08]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

What actually annoys me even more is my shopping trip actually only took 30 minutes, the other hour and half was because my baby caught me off guard and ended up needing feeding and nappy changed, unfortunately the only 3 shops on the retail park didn't have any baby rooms and i certinally wasn't going to do it in the street or the back of my car so we had to venture to somewhere with a baby room.

[Novocaine]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

I assume the supposed offence is that you parked in a disabled bay assuming it was free but it wasn't, unlike the average car park.

I'd: 1. Use the appeal form, and 2. (To cover yourself and increase the chance that they'll give up) ask what the charge is to park there for the time you were there and send them a cheque for that, crossed 'account payee not negotiable', with a covering letter stating that you are offering that in full and final settlement without admission of liability and without prejudice to your belief that no sum is payable, and that cashing the cheque constitutes acceptance. Keep a photocopy of the letter and cheque. Then see if the cheque leaves your bank account.

You don't need to do '2' but may find that it is such a small sum that it is worth it.

If you just can't stand the heat, you can always do what I said earlier i.e.

... If you do pay, send a covering letter stating words to the effect of 'I am paying under protest, and without prejudice to the belief that I am not liable for this fine'...

...and then sue them in the Small Claims Court. I wouldn't - it's giving in - but I am not you. If you appeal and they drop it, you'll feel great.
The reason for paying under protest and then suing is that it reduces your worry of the debt possibly increasing (no worry of additional charges from debt colllection agencies).

If you appeal and they don't back down, take photos of the car park - I'd want clear, large signs in the disabled area stating that you have to pay. Take photos all round to show they do not exist (assuming they don't) e.g. stills and then video (latter to show that there are no signs anywhere - unsavoury people could erect signs after you appeal and then claim they were there the whole time. I'm not saying they would - just that I don't trust people in general when in disputes).

Then take photos at the entrance - is the supposed notice that disabled parking is not free clear? Even if it is I would argue that because disabled parking is normally free (if it is), there must be clear signage in the disabled bays stating that. If it is buried among blurb on entry I would argue that that is insufficient notice.

You have to have notification that you have to pay before you park. If notification is in another area of the car park that you reasonably would not have seen, or e.g. on exit, tough for them. It is for them to prove that they gave you notice that you had to pay, not for you to disprove it.

If notification that disabled parking is not free is only on the ticket machine, the fact that disabled people normally don't have to pay means (I would argue strongly) that you never had notice as by definition you would not go to the ticket machine.

I bet this is a nice little earner for the company - people think that parking is free when it isn't.

This isn't legal advice - see a solicitor (e.g. CAB) for that.

[MadRed08]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

Thanks for this, unfortunately i've not been able to view the signage online so i will pay another visit to the car park and drive through to see the signage and read any signs within the disabled bays, yes disabled parking is usually free, even in most private car parks i've parked in so i wouldn't have even thought to check the ticket machine.

[Novocaine]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

You're welcome. Good luck.

You may wish to tell us where the car park is in case it's local to us.

[Novocaine]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

...You have to have notification that you have to pay before you park...

Doesn't apply though if you've been to the car park (or perhaps a sister car park) before and you were/should have been aware of it. If you become aware of something too late, tough for the other side. But you are then on notice for all future occasions.

This isn't legal advice - see a solicitor (e.g. CAB) for that.

[labman]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

Thanks for this, unfortunately i've not been able to view the signage online so i will pay another visit to the car park and drive through to see the signage and read any signs within the disabled bays, yes disabled parking is usually free, even in most private car parks i've parked in so i wouldn't have even thought to check the ticket machine.

Have you visited Google Street View? It's normally pretty good in terms of viewing general signage. It may well not be detailed enough to see exactly what the notice says.

Remember, they are only allowed to charge what is reasonable - they are not allowed to profit out of your misfortune, so this invoice ('ticket') is not allowed to be a penalty.

Are you able to post up a copy of the Parking Charge Notice with ALL personal details removed? Include everything that has writing on it.

[MadRed08]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

Hi, yes i visited Google Earth but unfortuantely you can't see the signage, they don't have one at the entrance, it's way into the car park, the opposite way to the disabled bays, i did notice on Google Earth though that there is a little sign near the disabled bays, again though it's to small to make out on street view, i will pop down and have a read, i will take a picture and post the photo of the signage and photo of the letter.
Thank you all i do really appreciate this.
Rachel

[Inca]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

Quite a few car parks now charge 'blue badge' holders for parking UNLESS the vehicle displays a tax exempt disc too.

[mystery1]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

An example, of many, why you should appeal and if that fails appeal to popla.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=82142&hl=

M1

[Novocaine]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

...
Have a watch of this from BBC's Watchdog - it may reassure people:

and this:

There's loads on there, but these are obviously more believable due to their source.

It was interesting watching the 2 videos - thanks Labman.

I liked the bit at 6:26 on the second video where Anne Robinson says: "...As the law currently stands, if you are the Registered Keeper of the vehicle you are not legally obliged to give them any information as you would with the police...". It doesn't help you if you were the driver but does if you weren't.

[mystery1]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

It was interesting watching the 2 videos - thanks Labman.

I liked the bit at 6:26 on the second video where Anne Robinson says: "...As the law currently stands, if you are the Registered Keeper of the vehicle you are not legally obliged to give them any information as you would with the police...". It doesn't help you if you were the driver but does if you weren't.

An old law. Whilst you are still not obliged to name the driver they can chase the registered keeper under PoFA 2012 schedule 4.

Despite all the advice there are some defeats in court surfacing and it's usually people who won't go to appeal to correct the wrong. One of them was where a contract was produced between parking Eye and the landowner dated AFTER the parking event ! Court is not a gimmie.

Popla is currently the best, and lowest risk, method of winning.

M1

[labman]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

Indeed it is - about two thirds of POPLA appeals are currently successful. Use the letter from this site - it's good! :beagle:

[bluebottle]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

An old law. Whilst you are still not obliged to name the driver they can chase the registered keeper under PoFA 2012 schedule 4.

Despite all the advice there are some defeats in court surfacing and it's usually people who won't go to appeal to correct the wrong. One of them was where a contract was produced between parking Eye and the landowner dated AFTER the parking event ! Court is not a gimmie.

Popla is currently the best, and lowest risk, method of winning.

M1

What happened in that case, Mystery? Not only does it smack of desperation, it also shouts Perverting the Course of Justice.

[mystery1]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=75803

Comment regarding contract http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...dpost&p=851671

M1

[bluebottle]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

Many thanks for that, Mystery. If PPCs are going to continue to misrepresent the law, then they should not be surprised if it comes back and bites them hard on the bum. As for the docile judge, sounds like they should be put out to grass. It is futile PPCs trying to cite that case as justification for their fatuous claims. It only applies to that particular case.