Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

[MadRed08]

Hi Guys,
Sorry for bothering you all but i need some help, i have just received a letter from Civil Enforcement Ltd charging me for parking in one of their car parks in July, i parked in one of the disabled bays and displayed me blue badge correctly, i didn't go and read the ticket machine as i'll be honest it is quite far away from the disabled bays and i have trouble walking, and to be honest i would never have thought that there would be different rules here to any other car park i've parked on, my blue badge is quite new so i don't know my full rights, how do i stand with this? do i have to pay? i would want to appeal but i don't want to pay double for trying to appeal, excuse my ignorance i honestly didn't realise there would be different rules for different car parks.
Please help.
Rachel

[labman]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

You can read this sites advice here:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...rking-Offences

I would also suggest you have a look at www.pepipoo.com who are a specialist motorist site, but I think advise much the same as us. You'll get more specialist help there, especially as you're dealing with one of the two more ferocious PPC's.

[MadRed08]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

Thank you very much for this, I'll have a read, I expect my partner will want to pay the fine so it dosen't get doubled so I will see if I can appeal even after payment.
Rachel

[Novocaine]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

What do they allege you did wrong? Please quote from the letter that you received - just where they specify what you allegedly did wrong. My alarm bells are ringing - I'm wondering if this company has special rules in the hope of catching people out (?).

Have you written or phoned the company? Personally I wouldn't while you investigate whether or not you've done anything wrong.

If this company is a private company, I suspect that you may not have to pay anything, or otherwise much less than what they are demanding.

Does communication from these people refer to a 'fine', 'penalty' or similar words? Private companies can't fine people unless the law allows them to (e.g. VEAS). I guess that what you have received is actually an invoice requesting voluntary payment though it will not look like that. That reflects that private companies can't fine people.

Thank you very much for this, I'll have a read, I expect my partner will want to pay the fine so it dosen't get doubled so I will see if I can appeal even after payment.
Rachel

That's one way they increase revenue. If you pay I guess the only way you'll ever get the money back if if you take it to the Small Claims Court which I guess you'd rather avoid if possible. Therefore I suggest you don't pay yet if the deadline is not imminenet i.e. what is the deadline for payment before the 'fine' is 'doubled'?

Do they threaten to double the fine after x days or do they halve it if paid within x days? There is a subtle but critical difference.

I strongly suggest you do not pay if you have time left before the deadline for the 'fine' doubling. If you do pay, send a covering letter stating words to the effect of 'I am paying under protest, and without prejudice to the belief that I am not liable for this fine'.

This isn't legal advice! See a solicitor for that.

[labman]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

Read the link. It says pretty much what is said above and how to appeal. Will add more later as on phone.

[Novocaine]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

Read the link. It says pretty much what is said above and how to appeal. Will add more later as on phone.

I don't know if 'It says pretty much what is said above' refers to my post.

I've just read Labman's link and the draft letter of appeal is superb - thanks Labman. All I would say is that I guess many private parking companies will ignore it (???) as they rely on ignorance of the law combined with people fretting and not wanting to pay the 'doubled' fee unaware that they probably have to pay little or nothing - you need to have the courage and confidence to trust the appeal letter and stand your ground.

If you don't have the confidence, I suggest a phone call to a solicitor that gives a free initial consultation or a trip the the CAB (the latter normally includes a very long wait - check first that they can give advice on a parking matter in a private car park as I'd hate for you to wait 2 hours to be told 'we dont do that'). Hopefully then you'll see what the parking company is up to and sit back while you make them run around.

[labman]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

I have to disagree with going to see a solicitor. There is a long time remaining before you even need to contemplate doing that. Before there is any chance of court, you have two appeals. Nearly two thirds of these are now proving successful as long as you have a strong appeal letter. The one on this site is potentially exceedingly strong.

If your appeal is then turned down, you should post up again.

The 'fine' is NOT a fine. It is purely a speculative invoice, and they are not permitted to make a profit from you parking there. We have fought many of these on this site yet, and while some have decided to pay, I'm not aware of any who have not having to pay one penny.

That said, it is only fair to point out to you that this company is one of the two most determined, but that does not mean they should get away with it if you have a genuine case.

[Novocaine]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

@labman

I take your point about a solicitor. The two solicitors I mentioned are both free. I say 'see a solicitor' partly to cover me from someone blindly following my comments and then getting annoyed with me if I am wrong. Maybe that's just because I'm a newbie.

The key fact is that the impression is that a private ticket is the same as one issued by a council or traffic warden which is untrue. I notice how some of the staff issuing tickets like to dress up in what to me looks very similar to police uniform. As you say, it's not a ticket, it's an invoice, something that the appeal template addresses superbly.

[labman]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

Absolutely spot on. Don't get me wrong - people pay these for peace of mind, and that is absolutely fine. Nobody would judge you any the worse for doing that. However, that is exactly what these firms rely on for their very survival which is, unsurprisingly, why consumer forums take a stance against them.

Have a watch of this from BBC's Watchdog - it may reassure people:

and this:

There's loads on there, but these are obviously more believable due to their source.

[mystery1]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=81119

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...pic=77838&st=0

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...pic=80172&st=0

Pressured for money then backed down when the heat got too much for CEL.

M1

[labman]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

To the OP MadRed08

There you go, that should be more than enough information to answer your question. Hopefully you can appeal with confidence now. :beagle:

[bluebottle]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=81119

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...pic=77838&st=0

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...pic=80172&st=0

Pressured for money then backed down when the heat got too much for CEL.

M1

Loved the post that contains the gem "...The boys and girls at Pepipoo say "Hello"." I bet CEL were well p*ssed-off when they read that! Lol!

[MadRed08]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

Thank you for all your replys guys, sorry i've not come back to them sooner i have a newborn baby which takes up the majority of my time at the moment, and the main reason i was parked in the car park in the first place, my mother was helping me pick something up for my baby.

I've just had a look at the letter dated 6th August 2013 and at the top in capital letters it states - Parking Charge Notice with an incident number, it says on 27th July 2013 the above named vehicle which was parked at: Halls Retail Park, Foundry Street, Bury, BL9 7AZ from 09:27am - 11:41am, we therefore require payment of this parking charge notice, in accordance with the parking terms and conditions clearly stated on the signage: payment not made in accordance with terms displayed on signage.
The amount of £150 must be paid within 28 days of the issue date above. If your remittance is received within 14 days of the issue date, a reduced amount of £75 will be accepted.
Failure to pay the amount due within 28 days of the issue date, will result in cival enforcement ltd forwarding your account to a debt recovery agency and you may incur additional costs.

Hope this helps.
Rachel

[bluebottle]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

What is the Pay & Display fee, if any, for the time you were there?

[MadRed08]

Re: Need help with Civil Enforcement Ltd

I'm not quite sure, i've never really paid for parking as i'm physically disabled, i only have one working leg so i have been using disabled bays with my blue badge is they are wider so i don't have as much trouble getting in and out of my car in them.
I've been trying to find a picture of the signage on the web so i can check, if i can't i will have to drive there and see if i can take a picture, it's a good 40 minute drive away though so i'm hoping to find it online.
Rachel