PCM PCN Appeal rejected

[andyb000!]

I lent my car to my son to go and visit our estranged grandson - a rare opportunity as there has been very limited contact.

On entering the new estate where they live, he noticed his son in a play area with his mum and so pulled up to go and talk to them.

He tells me that he was stopped for no more than 5-7 minutes and then moved the car round to their property nearby.

Roll on a couple of weeks and I receive a Notice to Keeper from PCM demanding settlement of a PCN for 'Parking in a restricted area' - penalty £60 if paid quickly.

I looked at the evidence photographs - apparently taken through the windscreen of an adjacent vehicle. The first evidence photo was taken at 09:41:32 and the last at 09:43:47 - so covers a period of just 2 and a bit minutes. A later evidence photo taken at 09:59:14 is of a parking sign - but is very obviously not the same sign as the one visible next to the car - the sign is also illegible in the photo.

I appealed and said I was not the driver, made the mistake of saying it was my son driving (but didn't further ID him), explained the circumstances, pointed out that he was actually next to the vehicle the whole time talking to his ex wife and son. I also asked for a clearer photo of the sign as the evidence pic was unreadable.

Have now received a letter rejecting my appeal stating that the vehicle was parked and that a parking permit should be clearly displayed in the windscreen and was clearly in breach of the conditions of parking. (It should be noted that the Parking person who took the photos didn't get out of the car to inspect the dashboard to see if there was a visitor parking permit that may have been lying down on it as one would a parking ticket.)

No clearer photo of the sign was supplied so I still have no idea what the conditions actually were.

Am I correct in thinking that there should be a grace period of at least 10 minutes before a pcn is issued to allow the driver to read the sign and decide whther or not they wish to accept the conditions and take appropriate action? He tells me that this was his first visit to the estate and so wouldn't be aware of what te parking conditions are.

Do I have any further cause for appeal as Keeper?

Grateful for any thoughts

[andyb000!]

supplemental:
The PCN gives the location of the restriction as 'Cedar Meadows - SG3'.
I can't find 'Cedar Meadows' on Google maps but a bit more investigation reveals this as the name of a then new housing development in 2021.
The name of the road was actually White Cross Drive - which isn't mentioned in the PCN.
Is this relevant?

[des8]

If it was me I wouldn't bother trying any further appeals, either to PCM or IAS as the chances of them being upheld are close to zero, although you could try on the basis that the parking company should allow a consideration period of 5-10 minutes for the driver to read the signs and then decide whether or not to park (IPC code of conduct tableB1)

You either pay the £60 or let it run to court, where you have IMO a reasonable defence:

i)They don't know the identity of the driver (but they could find it out if they try hard enough!) so will sue the reg. keeper
ii)The failure to properly identify the location should be enough to sink them in court as the NTK needs to specify the location
iii) the NTK refers to "parking in a restricted area". I assume (but would need to check the actual wording on the signs) that the signs say one may not park in this area. As one cannot contract to do something which is forbidden, they may not issue a parking notice which they will claim in court is for breach of a parking contract.

There are possibly other failures on their signs, but need to see a completely legible photo.

[andyb000!]

Sadly, the only image I could get off Google Streetview with any clarity was the sign at the entrance to the street (attached) - but even this sign has issues in that it states 'Parking Permits Only' where actually there are visitor spaces around the estate where visitors can I'm informed park without the need to display a permit.

I did request from PCM a clearer image of the wording of the sign as the one offered in the evidence block of images was illegible, but this was not forthcoming. For me to take a clearer picture would involve a round trip of around 50 miles....

[des8]

No chance of your son's ex getting a picture I suppose?

Anyway that picture confirms what I thought.
That notice is forbidding i.e. if you have no permit you may not park.
When it comes to court the claim will say the driver breached a contract.
However there can be no contract to do something that is forbidden, so their claim should fail.

I would ignore them and their debt collectors until I received a letter headed "letter of Claim"
At that point you can make your defence, which they will probably ignore and then issue a court claim.
they may or may not follow through..... sometimes these companies discontinue or just don't turn up at court!
County court can be a bit of a lottery, altho' IMO you have a good defence

Whether or not you would wish to go through to court is your choice

[andyb000!]

Thank you for your advice - and some interesting and compelling points - but with other things happening in Real Life at the mo including ill health in the family I've taken the view that we'll just pay for this to disappear.