Ticket on Provisional License

[Sergio95]

Hello everyone. Two weeks ago I was driving on the M1, a speed camera at the local limit (60mph) where I was going 70mph took a picture of me. I was driving on a provisional license, without stickers (L), I had no insurance for this car, but next to me was a driver who has a full license and is the owner of the car. What consequences can I have for this ticket if I stated that I was driving the car?

[des8]

If the owner of the vehicle is also the registered keeper he may receive a Notice of Intended Prosecution and a requirement to identify the driver.

If he identifies you, you will be charged with speeding, driving otherwise than in accordance with your provisional licence and driving uninsured.
He might then be charged with permitting you to drive uninsured.

For penalties I'll leave that for islandgirl to unravel !

[atticus]

you have described at least 3 potential offences.

[islandgirl]

No insurance looking at the guidelines would fall into category 2 - higher culpability lesser harm for which the sentencing guidelines show this:
Category 2 - Band C fine - Consider disqualification for up to 6 months OR 8 points
Band c is 150% of weekly income.
The licence offence gives 3 to 6 points
Speeding band A fine and 3 points (band A is 50% of income)
Of course the mags will look at the totality of these and construct an appropriate penalty.
Guilty plea gets a third off...
And then there is the matter of insurance purchase when you do pass your test...

[Manxman]

Hello everyone. Two weeks ago I was driving on the M1, a speed camera at the local limit (60mph) where I was going 70mph took a picture of me. I was driving on a provisional license, without stickers (L), I had no insurance for this car, but next to me was a driver who has a full license and is the owner of the car. What consequences can I have for this ticket if I stated that I was driving the car?

To turn the question round, if the Registered Keeper does get a s172 request to name the driver, and both they and you do not identify you as the driver, then you both run the risk of being found guilty of perverting the course of justice and being sent to prison.

Even former cabinet ministers are not immune from such punishment: Chris Huhne and Vicky Pryce jailed for eight months - BBC News

[Sergio95]

No insurance looking at the guidelines would fall into category 2 - higher culpability lesser harm for which the sentencing guidelines show this:
Category 2 - Band C fine - Consider disqualification for up to 6 months OR 8 points
Band c is 150% of weekly income.
The licence offence gives 3 to 6 points
Speeding band A fine and 3 points (band A is 50% of income)
Of course the mags will look at the totality of these and construct an appropriate penalty.
Guilty plea gets a third off...
And then there is the matter of insurance purchase when you do pass your test...

[Sergio95]

What about the post above, I didn't know how to do the replay option (I'm writing from my phone and I don't see the replay option, sorry) If I just wrote that I was driving alone, I'm asking purely hypothetically because I'm curious if the owner would have a problem with this?

[HandyAndy]

To turn the question round, if the Registered Keeper does get a s172 request to name the driver, and both they and you do not identify you as the driver, then you both run the risk of being found guilty of perverting the course of justice and being sent to prison.

That's not quite correct, Manxman. It will only take one of the two to fail to provide the driver's details. If the RK does not, he gets charged with the offence and that's that. If he names the OP and he fails to respond, he gets charged with the offence and that's that. So it's either one of them.

Whether the "offence" would be attempting to pervert the course of justice, I would suggest is very unlikely. Chris Huhne/Vicky Pryce were prosecuted for PCoJ because Mr Huhne deliberately nominated Ms Pryce as the driver when he knew this to be untrue. He did so because he had nine points and would face a "totting up" ban if convicted. Ms Pryce was similarly found guilty because she admitted to being the driver, which she also knew to be untrue.
Failing to provide the driver's details is an offence in its own right and committing it does not make one guilty of PCoJ. It is not a sound argument to say that anybody failing to provide the driver's details is guilty of PcoJ, even if they know the driver's identity. Parliament has provided a penalty for the offence and I have never known a person to be charged with PCoJ simply because they committed a s172 offence. Of course the police would have to consult the CPS in order to bring such a charge and they would have to consider whether the defendant was attempting to avoid justice by failing to respond. I'm not so sure they'd go for it and in any case we must not suggest people commit one criminal offence to avoid another.

All that said, I am not entirely sure that the other offences will be detected. Insurance is certainly not routinely checked when processing speeding offences. Whether somebody is eagle-eyed enough to detect that the person accepting a speeding penalty was a provisional licence holder, and the offence was committed on a motorway is not at all a certainty. If the OP is nominated by the RK and simply accepts a course or fixed penalty he will have to ride his luck and see what happens.

A prosecution for all three offences will certainly see a harsh penalty. He will only receive points (or a disqualification) for the most serious (No Insurance). The offence certainly is in Category 2 as Island Girl suggests (never passed a test) so an immediate disqualification is a possibility. If he's awarded points, six is the minimum so he will be in a precarious position if and when he passes his test as any offence within two years will see his licence revoked. All the offences will attract fines and endorsements but again, I'm with Island Girl and the court will probably consider the "totality" of the offences.

The owner of the vehicle could also face charges, certainly of permitting the vehicle to be driven uninsured and possibly for the licence offence as well. The penalties for them are the same as for the signature offences themselves.