voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

[just_cambs77]

Hi, I have a promblem with making a voulunatry termination and was wondering if anyone had some advise.

First i was over the 50% liability and had never missed a payment when i decided to voluntery terminate on the 20th of January.

I sent notice to Santander in a letter which they revived phoned me on the 23rd to arange the return of the car .

In my opinion they did not offer a responsible place to return the car. So i said i wanted to complain. I sent a letter of complaint which i never recived a reply.

I phoned them on the 3rd of February to see if they had my complaint and also the car was now unissured and untaxed. They would not give me another place to take the car so i argeed to pay there collection fee and was told i coulud pay it to their agents.

I then recived a defult notice as i had cancelled the direct debit. A payment was due on the 1st of the month.

I phoned and questioned this and was told because i had made a complaint they had not acceppted my VT and would need to write another VT letter.

I disagree and they have now sent three default notices plus late payment fees.

i have been to the financial ombudsman who argee i was not given a responsible place to return the car but say because i taxed the car ( i had to as it is parked on the road) i should pay.

Any help would be great

[R0b]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

You are right in that you VT the first time. You have a legal right to VT and whether or not the VT is accepted is not up to Santander.

How long ago was t when you received the decision from the Ombudsman, do you have an option to appeal and review their decision? Have you accepted their decision?

The default notices and fees are not applicable they cannot enforce them in you but be sure to keep an eye on your credit report in case they put a marker on there.

Can you clarify what you mean by you should pay? You said the car was not taxed anymore but further down you say it was taxed, please clarify

In terms of the collection fees the only way to recover them will be through he courts if you wanted your money back, unless the Ombudsman agrees to award that collection fees back.

[just_cambs77]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

The ombudsmen gave there decision last week, i left the car untaxed for a month but recived a warning from the DVAL so had to tax the car. The ombudsmans decision was that i should pay the arrears apart from the month when the car was not taxed.

i explained to the ombudsmans i was breaking the law by not taxing the car but they said this would not change there decision.

I have not accepted there decision and i have not heard if Santander have accepted the decision.

i still have the car and have argeed to pay the collection fee but Santander will not collect the car they say i have to resubmit another VT.

[R0b]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

Making a complaint does not revoke your right to terminate the agreement. It is not up to Santander to decide if and how the VT is accepted, all you are required is to give notice under s.99 of the CCA. The Ombudsman doesn't have a clue and neither does Santander. Santander cannot accept the decision of the Ombudsman only you can which becomes binding if you do.

I would advise against paying the collection charges as you are not legally required to do so. If it was me, I would threaten Santander to collect the car or if they do not then you will inform the DVLA that the change of registered keeper is Santander and then you can cancel the tax and insurance and responsibility lies with them.

Just because Santander decided not to accept the notice of termination as you had made a complaint in relation to something else, does not mean that the notice was not valid.

Up to you though, I was with Santander and they can't tell their head from their **** sometimes. If you do notify the DVLA then they may threaten you with court action but as far as I see it, you are not liable for any payments after the you notified them of your notice to terminate.

So, you can either fight it, or get scared and pay up.

[just_cambs77]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

Thanks for your help Rob, i was thinkin of just letting Santander take me to court to reposses the car, and then telling the court i have already offered to pay Santanders collection fee (I have that in a letter i wrote) and that i gave them notice on the aregeement.

What do you think the court would say?
Would they automatically argee with the ombudsman?

I have no intetion for paying the arreas that have a cumulated after giving notice unless instucted by a court.

[R0b]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

The problem is that the people from Santander for some reason do not understand the provisions of the CCA or maybe they are unaware of them despite being told of them. They of course have a job to collect fees and are no doubt on some sort of commission for collecting alleged debts. The outstanding balance is an alleged debt and cannot be recognised until the court agrees with Santander.

The same applies to the Ombudsman, decisions are hit and miss presumably because they either don't understand the CCA properly or have not been given the relevant provisions by the complainant which evidences their restricted liability. They will only therefore be able to on the information provided by both parties. The people who make the decisions at the Ombudsman are unlikely to be legally trained are able to depart from the law if they feel like it. This is unlike the law where a judge will take into account what the CCA says and apply it to the case in hand.

Generally, you cannot revoke a termination letter once notice has been, there are certain exceptions and the facts will differ to each case but the courts have ruled before than someone who gives notice to terminate cannot simply revoke that termination. Issues like this are quite prevalent in employment cases which albeit is not the same as a hire purchase but the same principle can still apply.

Your defence and Santander's biggest issue will be overcoming s.99 of the CCA which says:

At any time before the final payment by the debtor under a regulated hire-purchase or regulated conditional sale agreement falls due, the debtor shall be entitled to terminate the agreement by giving notice to any person entitled or authorised to receive the sums payable under the agreement.

As you can see there is no option to give so much notice, or the right for Santander to reject the notice but simply notice must be given to them. They have no leg to stand on and just because you make a complaint does not give them the right to revoke the notice or reject it - That is probably some numpty in the office who is probably trying to be a smart arse and no clue what they are on about.

Santander has no defence to that at all and if it went to court, which is unlikely, then they will get embarrassed.

I would suggest writing/emailing Santander and saying that unless someone arranges to collect the vehicle within the next 7 days of the date of the letter, then you will notify the DVLA that the registered keeper is them and then cancel your tax and insurance once you have received confirmation of the change (you can notify the DVLA online which should be quicker than in the post).

I think that should in theory have Santander coming to collect the car. I can help with the drafting but have would be helpful for you to give it a go yourself and I can take a look at it after, and it might be helpful to give reasons why Santander believe they have a right to reject the notice, was this simply because you made a complaint?

[just_cambs77]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

Ill try writing a letter explaining i will be putting the car back in there name and pass it on to you.

Santander said on the first phone call that if i do not pay a £70 collection fee ( which is in the terms and conditions) or argee to take the car to the place they wanted (which i said was to far away) they would not accept my VT and i would need to resubmit another.

I argued this at the time but they were not listening.

The strange thing is on the third of February I argeed to pay the collection fee just to get the matter sorted out. They advised me i could pay the agents. ( i have gained telephone calls and notes which they hold o me and this one telephone call has been obmitted from the records. Apart from in there abberivated notes it mentions paying the agents..)

I guess they just wanted to stall the VT process hoping i would pay.

I will write a letter explaining i will put the carback in there name.

Thanks

[R0b]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

Happy to look at it when you have written it up, just copy and paste it here and you can tag me by using @r0b so i'll get a notification in case i miss it

[just_cambs77]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

Hi Rob,

I thought i would let you know that the bank accepted the ombudsmans decision but i did not.

It will now go to a review.

The ombudsmans wrote that he had come to the decision I should pay the arrears because there is no evidence that the bank and me did argee to the VT.

Shall i be a bit cheeky and ask for the idepent reviewer to point out where it states in the consummer credit act the bank have to argee to the VT, if he agees i have to pay the arrears?

[R0b]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

Yeah you should reference that and question the decision as to why he thinks both parties have to agree to VT and if so where in the consumer credit act says this and explain his reasons. Point out that s.99 of the act gives you a right to terminate at any time by giving notice to the bank and that right does not require the bank to accept it before the VT is exercised. It is exercise upon giving notice of termination to the bank.

So I would politely say that he is wrong in that fact and if he believes that the bank must agree, then evidence what section of the consumer credit act says this.

[seduraed]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

I believe that the correct term to use is that the ombudsman has "Made an error in law" then follow up with the advice from rob . Certainly when dealing councils and tribunals the terms error in law and error in fact are used a great deal and seem to e the approved phrases .

[R0b]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

Yes thank you for correcting me, the only thing to be aware of is that unlike councils and other bodies, the Ombudsman does not need to stick the the letter of the law and can depart from it if they so wish. However they will generally favour the consumer where they can if it is practicable to do so and is not too onerous on the other side

[just_cambs77]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

Just a quick update yesterday i wrote to the bank giving them 14 days to get in contact to arange collecton or i will put the car in their name and cancel the insurance and tax. I made it clear i was still willing to pay the collection charge. I will update when i get a response.

[R0b]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

hopefully they will respond, make sure you have kept a receipt of the postage if not sent recorded/signed delivery as proof and a copy of the letter you have sent to them in case they dispute this.

[just_cambs77]

Re: voulunatry termination, bank will not accept

The bank have still not responded, they have two days left. How do I go about making them the registered keeper of the car? Do i just fill in the V5 and send it to the DVAL? The ombudsmans has just asked how many miles i have driven in the car since I tried to terminate the agreement. How should i answer this. I dont really want to answer as it has no legal relevance.