Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

[SamSmith]

Good Morning all,

I hope you can assist me with this very stressful situation.

I purchased a classic car that was abandoned on a farm for 5/6yrs

There were no documents with the car at all so I did an HPI check, contacted the Police and even the owners club from the marque and all came back clear.

I subsequently purchased the car with the view to repairing and getting back on the road.

All appeared fine, I managed to get a V5 from the DVLA in my name and work was progressing well when out of the blue 7 months later I received a call from the Police saying they are seizing the car as stolen.

I was distraught at this and enquired who/why the owner can suddenly appear out of nowhere 5yrs later and claim ownership. It transpires it is the previous owners son who is claiming ownership.

Investigations by the Police conclude that no criminal wrongdoing occurred by any parties however I am now left without the car and money.

I wonder if anyone has any advice regarding claiming good title to the car? - how does one go about this?

Is it the norm for someone to appear after so long away and validly claim title to the car?

I see many 'barn-finds' being sold, does this mean that at anytime someone from the past could appear and claim ownership of those?

Many thanks

[wales01man]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

If its legal owner claims it back after its been stolen not but by you by someone else its theirs to keep you could have a claim against the person who sold it to you.
Do you have a receipt for the car from the seller?

[SamSmith]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

Hi, many thanks for the message. I do have all receipts available but basically I would like to retain the car due to the level of work I have undertaken.

What I would like to know is how one would go about claiming title to the car?

For example, just because the previous owners Son now claims ownership, surely he would have to prove this somehow?

I think I performed all the necessary checks one could do before purchasing

[des8]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

From whom did you purchase the car?
If that person did not have good title (and if it was not the owner how could he?) then that's the person to pursue.
Just because the owner had left his goods in a barn, lock up or whatever does not give the finder the right to sell.
I accept you did all you reasonably could, as is evidenced by the police not taking any action.
It is possible that the person who sold you the vehicle had carried out what he thought were reasonable checks, but at the end of the day he did not own the vehicle and so could not sell it to you. IMO you ask him to reimburse you, and you possibly have a case for being paid by the current for the restoration work carried out.

PS what was the vehicle?(mine are 1951 AC 2l saloon & 1971 MGB GT)

[righty]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

1st you should have sort legal advice as soon as the police said they were going to take the car. As an innocent buyer the car belongs to you no matter what the cops claim. I suggest that you seek professional legal advice to start a claim to both recover the car AND to sue the police for their unlawful behaviour. If the son wanted the car returned claiming it was stolen (which it wasn't) he should have sort a courts agreement Oh! & you can sue the son for good measure

[SamSmith]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

Many thanks again for the advice.

I think my main issue is still with the 'owner' himself. This is quite an in-depth issue but to surmise, the vehicle was abandoned in a field for over 5yrs open to the elements. Storage charges were discussed with the farm owner but nothing was ever agreed or put in place. Somehow behind the farmers back (it is a big farm!) the vehicle was transported there (although the owner has no paperwork at all about this) and left without any monies or storage charges being paid.

After 5yrs the area where the car was abandoned required tidying up and subsequently the farmer instructed the area to be cleared and that was when the car was first noted. With no customer details or anyway of tracing him what other options did the farmer have?

Did he act legally in instructing removal of the abandoned goods from his farm?

[SamSmith]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

Righty - Your post is so correct and how I wish I'd taken your advice at the beginning. Is anyone here experienced in this field and can assist me to recover the car?

[Wombats]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

You state:

It transpires it is the previous owners son who is claiming ownership.

Investigations by the Police conclude that no criminal wrongdoing occurred by any parties......

Does this mean the previous owner had passed away in the mean time, leaving their estate to the son?

If they hadn't, I fail to see how you can claim ownership of somebody else's property. There are many who'd like to be able to claim ownership of their Mum/Dad's vehicle, but that isn't how it works.

I think this point needs clarifying. :beagle:

[SamSmith]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

You state:



Does this mean the previous owner had passed away in the mean time, leaving their estate to the son?

If they hadn't, I fail to see how you can claim ownership of somebody else's property. There are many who'd like to be able to claim ownership of their Mum/Dad's vehicle, but that isn't how it works.

I think this point needs clarifying. :beagle:
[/FONT]

Very true, I am trying to get a definitive answer from the Police on this. As far as I know (but this is not confirmed) the ownership was just 'assumed' as the Father died. I find it so infuriating how this has all transpired, I literally received a telephone call one afternoon from my wife saying the Police were at my house with a car transporter to remove the car. They subsequently removed the car and all this drama has occurred since. I was assured after the Police looked into the matter further that the car would actually be returned to me as I am the rightful owner, however I only received a letter yesterday explaining how everyone acted accordingly, i.e the farmer who's land the car was left on etc BUT that the car would be returned to the Son.

[stevemLS]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

1st you should have sort legal advice as soon as the police said they were going to take the car. As an innocent buyer the car belongs to you no matter what the cops claim. I suggest that you seek professional legal advice to start a claim to both recover the car AND to sue the police for their unlawful behaviour. If the son wanted the car returned claiming it was stolen (which it wasn't) he should have sort a courts agreement Oh! & you can sue the son for good measure

I can see why OP seized on this post, regrettably it is nonsense.

However innocent the buyer, if the seller does not have title to the goods it cannot lawfully pass between the two.

Thousands of cars are seized every year where the seller did not have title either because they were stolen or had outstanding finance.

Don't HPI offer some sort of warranty if their title search is defective?

[wales01man]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

To get to the bottom of this You need to consult a Solicitor taking the paperwork you have Advice on this forum is good but Only a Solicitor reviewing the paperwork and knowing his stuff will be able to give the answers.
Did you pay anyone for the car if so who

[SamSmith]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

Thanks everyone for their input - I will try and locate a solicitor in this specific field which I think will be a challenge but I'm sure they are out there.

[SamSmith]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

I can see why OP seized on this post, regrettably it is nonsense.

However innocent the buyer, if the seller does not have title to the goods it cannot lawfully pass between the two.

Thousands of cars are seized every year where the seller did not have title either because they were stolen or had outstanding finance.

Don't HPI offer some sort of warranty if their title search is defective?

I think this is the main point, when can (if ever) the farmer rightfully remove the car from his land? - is it after 1yr, 10yrs etc?? - this is the basic point of the problem and I need to seek the legal advice on this.

The HPI search was clear because the car at that time was not stolen, it was only reported stolen 7 months after I purchased it.

[stevemLS]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

Second part of this http://archive.defra.gov.uk/environment/quality/local/legislation/cnea/documents/vehicles.pdf sets out legislation relating to abandoned cars, but only deals with council powers to remove.

I guess you could compare it with old jewellery you put in a box at the back of the wardrobe (or even bury in your back garden) for years, you never lose ownership of it.

[des8]

Re: Purchased 'stolen' car - advice needed regarding proof of title

"Did he act legally in instructing removal of the abandoned goods from his farm?"

Short answer: No

I still think your remedy lies eventually with the farmer who originated the steps that ended with you "owning" the car.
The fact the car had been left on his land for five years does not make it "abandoned", and does not give him the right to remove or sell it.
I wonder what steps he took to trace the owner? If he had been in contact with DVLA, and showed good reason and paid the fee, he would have obtained the reg. keepers last known address. Local councils will often help in tracing owners of apparently abandoned vehicles.

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q441.htm:
To avoid committing an offence where a vehicle has been left on private land, would require the vehicle to be removed by a person/s acting with lawful authority, or by moving/removing it with every care taken to show that there is no intention of depriving the driver of the vehicle from subsequently retrieving it. In the first instance, policies may vary from region to region as to who undertakes such a role in relation to private land but it is advisable to contact your local police or local authority to check who will take responsibility for its removal. The duty to remove a vehicle arises where it appears to them that the vehicle has been abandoned without lawful authority.

How did the owner manage to trace the vehicle? presumably reported it stolen as it had been moved without legal authority.