** WON ** Sold an Unroadworthy Car

[BMW X5]

Hello Beagles,

I've been a long time lurker and picked up a lot of useful info regarding cars and the CRA 2015. This is my position at present.
I bought a BMW X5 for £5,834 on the 13th Dec '18 from a dealer in Leeds. At the sale, I was shown a Pre Delivery Inspection (PDI) report which claimed that a 74 point inspection had been carried out and every box was coloured green. The MOT passed in October '18. The salesman said the car had been fully serviced. He put all the paperwork in a folder and I drove home.
Examining the folder and I find the service book has not been stamped and the MOT is missing. I do a basic check of fluids, tyre pressures and so on. Brake fluid 6mm below max, one tyre at 15psi, coolant level so low I can't even see it, wheel bolts not tightened correctly and so on. However, the service lights have been reset and all green. I contact them and get no response.
So, I remove all 4 wheels and inspect the brakes. Heavily corroded rear brake pipes, brake pads below min thickness front and rear and pads separating from the steel plates, all brake discs below min thickness, rear handbrake drum face so corroded no shiny steel surface at all, front hub nuts not locked and headlamp auto adjuster hanging off. I take a lot of photos and email them immediately.
Their 'service manager' calls me and tells me the car would pass an MOT so that's that (in a nutshell). He does not accept my findings, does not offer to check the car himself and unless I want to reject it, basically tough luck. Its got an MOT and the PDI I had done 42 miles.
So, I make an offer to repair the car at no cost to them if they pay for or supply the parts. He says he'll speak to the owners but agrees its a good workable solution. So I buy the brake parts and fit them.
A short time later while pressing the brake pedal, it goes to the floor. One of the rear brake pipes had blown due to excessive corrosion. I take photos and send them by email. The service manager phones the following day. He is dismissive at first then under threat of the police, trading standards etc agrees to supply 2 new pipes for me to fit. Later in the day I travel over and collect the pipes. He tells me to sign for them so his bosses can see for themselves. He says he is still waiting for his bosses to authorise the brake parts cost. Fit the pipes and all sorted.
Much much later, 6 weeks on and I find out the receipt for the pipes is a disclaimer; "We have agreed to supply new pipes as full and final settlement"
I then carry out a full inspection of the car noting all the faults and condition of components. The brake fluid had not been changed in 8 years and no Inspection 2 service had been done. The service book had not been stamped for 4 years. Still no MOT certificate. I email all the findings with photos on 3rd January '19. No response.
I send the email as a letter by recorded delivery on 14th January '19. No response.
They sell cars under the AA Cars banner so tried the AA to mediate. At this point Legal Solutions 4U appears. They claim I ignored their letter of the 15th January '19 and their letter of the 31st January '19. I never received any letters from them and do not have problems with the post. They do not provide proof of postage and both letters are unsigned. Mediation fails.
I go through the same process with the National Conciliation Service and all responses are copy and paste nonsense. The car had a valid MOT and had been given a PDI so the faults were not present at the point of sale blah blah blah. Followed the process for issuing a claim and court date set for November. Legal Solutions have insisted I send all correspondence to them and they have simply restated their position as on every previous occasion. They insisted on an independent expert report which has been done. It is scathing about the PDI and the service saying neither had been carried out. The car was described as in a dangerous condition.

I did not want to reject the car as the faults were all easily repairable by myself and the car itself is in otherwise very good condition. The service manager knew all this and was agreeable to me doing the work. He did need the bosses' authorisation to pay for the parts. However, after collecting the pipes I never heard from them again.

I have done my homework on Legal Solutions 4U so will not correspond with them as they have no legal standing. The owner, one of a partnership as he is disqualified as a company director until 2025, is Malcolm Stewart Graham who was struck off in 2009 as a solicitor, and in 2013 given a 2 year suspended sentence after admitting 7 counts of fraud. He is currently paying off £800,000 to the taxman or faces 5 years imprisonment.

Apologies for the long post!!!

[des8]

Interesting story and have come across Legal Solutions 4U .
You seem to be handling the situation well.... are you asking for help?
If so, and you already have a court date, you have left your request a trifle late

[des8]

Interesting story and have come across Legal Solutions 4U previously.
You seem to be handling the situation well.... are you asking for help?
If so what, and as you already have a court date, you have left your request a trifle late

[BMW X5]

Hello, no, not asking for help really. I found this site very helpful when this all started going wrong I noticed some other comments about Legal Solutions 4U and hope this info may help clarify the situation. Interestingly, they seem to use the exact same terminology when trying to fob everyone off so maybe they use a lot of copy and paste
One question please: when I finally received their letters after AA Cars attempt at mediation (very poor effort) they were headed with the company logo but were unsigned and unnamed. They practically insisted I send all correspondence to them and not the defendants. However, they did not send the two letters as claimed and have also insisted I did receive the MOT certificate (I definitely did not).
Should I obey them or shall I carry on and send any letters to the garage? I have only the court documents left to send now. As they are not regulated and are, in their words a consultancy, what do you think?
Thanks

[des8]

Legal Solutions 4U use template letters.

I would send both them and the dealer any letters, but court papers to the dealer

[BMW X5]

Thanks for your reply. I have emailed the National Conciliation Service mediator with details of the company owner and he has already raised concerns about the way they operate and the time taken to respond.

Hearing in early November so I will let you know how I get on.

[BMW X5]

An update about Legal Solutions 4U.

Trading Standards Gateshead Council, emailed me to say that on the 8/8/19 they provided Legal Solutions 4U with advice. The email does not specify exactly what was said.
However, when I emailed T.S., I mentioned the fact they misused the CRA 2015 to dissuade me from continuing with the action. For example, they say I have not proved the fault was present at the point of sale - seriously corroded brake pipe that burst just 13 days after purchase! As you know, in the first 6 months it is not for the consumer to prove anything but they have maintained this stance.

Trading Standards have requested that any correspondence after 8/8/19 that is misleading or a misrepresentation of the CRA 2015 should be forwarded to them for further action.

[des8]

If the vehicle appears to be unsatisfactory in the first 30 days after delivery it is for the consumer to prove it was unsatisfactory at the time of delivery.
If it proves to be unsatisfactory in the subsequent 5 months it is deemed that the vehicle was unsatisfactory at the time of delivery.

I would suggest that a brake pipe bursting within 5 days of purchase is self evident the vehicle was unsatisfactory at the point of sale on the basis of lack of durability CRA 2015 9 (3) (e)

[BMW X5]

Yes, thank you for the clarification.

[BMW X5]

Well, the court hearing is listed for Tuesday 12th November. I sent my witness statement which they have signed for so that is all done.
I received a bundle from the dealer, not Legal Solutions 4U, which includes just one witness statement. This statement is signed by one of the directors of the company, a Mr Robinder Singh. In it he states that he sold the car to me in his office, that he handed me the file of PDI/Service sheet, invoice etc etc. He also claims that I fully examined the car and was very happy with it after I had been on a test drive. No test drive ever took place. He also states he personally agreed to supply the brake pipes and that I signed a disclaimer in his presence after he explained it to me. He was not there.
At no time have I ever seen this person before. The salesman was a white male as was the service manager. My question therefore, is this: can he provide this statement as fact? Can I move to have it thrown out and, therefore, the defence? Or am I hoping for too much?
Of interest, part of the defence is an allegation that the parts from the car are actually from another one. My research shows that 90% of the parts only fit this one model. He also suggests that between removal of the parts - brake discs and pads mainly - that in the next 3 months they have deteriorated so much they now look worse. Not sure how brake discs and pads get thinner when kept in a heated room?

[des8]

Signing a Statement of Truth when knowing that a document contains a false statement may lead to a contempt of court charge (CPR 32.14). Being in contempt of court is punishable by way of a fine or a maximum penalty of two years in prison, so Mr Singh may have a problem if you can show in court that the WS contains falsehoods.
He will probably claim that when he says he did this that or the other he really meant his company.
The WS was probably drafted by Legal Solutions

. You could prepare a supplemental witness statement to identify and deal with the factual inaccuracies contained in the WS, or draw the judge's attention to them at the trial. Up to the court whether it is struck out or not.

Depends on how the judge runs the trial. He may do the examination of you both, but if you get the opportunity to cross examine and think the language used is that of LS you may be able to trip Mr Singh up.
Just know your case and their defence inside out...... preparation is the key for the hearing

[BMW X5]

I'm fairly certain LS4U wrote the statement as many of the words are the same as in their letter. I will study the statement and make notes where it is clearly incorrect and some points in it contradict LS4U's previous claims.
At this time I do not know which judge will hear the case but if it is the same one who issued the directions, then she is the same one we saw during our dispute with a contractor a few months ago (that was successful for us). She does all the talking.
I'm assuming that only Mr Singh will attend as there is no statement from the salesman or the service manager which surprised me.
Anyway, thank you for your advice and I will definitely post up the result (good or bad).

[BMW X5]

Result!

At Huddersfield County Court, the case was heard. The defendant only produced one witness statement then tried to have his manager give evidence in the room. The judge refused. He explained that his 'legal representative' was in Kent at another hearing (oh really?).
The judge accepted the expert report but defendant complained saying he had not agreed to it. I produced the letter from Legal Solutions 4U which demanded it. He had not seen the letter before.
In essence the judge relied on the expert's report and found in my favour. She awarded judgement of £300, plus court costs of £60 (issuing the claim), plus £80 (court hearing fee) plus the expert's invoice of £360. Total of £800.
The defendant was very unhappy accusing me of producing parts not from this car and so on. The judge asked him if he wanted to appeal her decision and he said yes, British Justice is 'toast'. She refused him leave to appeal.
Now there's just the small problem of getting the money.

Anyway, just like to thank you for your guidance and for all the help you've given others whose stories gave me the confidence to tackle this problem.
Regards

[des8]

I love that last bit!

Thanks for letting us know the result, and well done.
Be aware that tho' the judge refused permission to appeal, he could apply to the court of appeal for permission.
If he is sensible he won't, but you never know

[BMW X5]

No, I realise he can apply to appeal. I think it was just a 'teddy out the pram' moment and he was trying to save face in front of his service manager. I suppose that when the order lands on his desk he might consider it. But for a garage that claims to sell 60 cars a month I'd have thought he had more important things to do than waste a fair amount of cash on an appeal. I'll soon find out!

You might like this exchange:

Me: You provided me with a PDI Service sheet and item 43 is shown as green. This refers to the condition of the brakes and that you have inspected and measured them. The technician and service manager have signed a declaration at the end which says you have done this in accordance with the manual. Can you tell me which manual this is?

Him: Well its Autodata as all garages do.

Me: If you look at the bundle of exhibits I provided you will find a copy of the relevant Autodata specifications (he found it) and it shows the minimum thickness of the front brake discs to be 28.4mm. They were found to be 27.04mm. Are you saying that you use Autodata but then ignore it?

Him: The car had 113,000 miles on it. You can't expect a car with that age and mileage not to have some wear and tear.

At this point the judge had heard enough and started on her decision.

His other beef was the appointing of the expert which he said he had not agreed to as he was not a joint expert. I handed him a copy of a letter sent to me by Legal Solutions 4U demanding an independent expert's report as I was biased. He claimed he had never seen it before........