Council Tax Liabilty Order issued yesteray

[lgfa92]

Re: Council Tax Liabilty Order issued yesteray

As there are only two people present it is Not an HMO the definition is "Three or more persons forming two or more households."
The are special rules if the landlord is resident.

You're making the common mistake of using the HMO licensing definition - Council Tax has it's own HMO definition. Two different bits of legislation which have their own definition of the same word (I always say to people to think of tax - tax to the council means something different to tax for HMRC).

The licensing definition of a HMO is given in the Housing Act (as you've mentioned) but the Council Tax one is contained in Council Tax legislation.

The Council Tax definition was defined in the 1992 regulations and the altered up to and including the Council Tax (Liability for Owners and Additional Provisions for Discount Disregards) (Amendment) Regulations 1995. The Council Tax regulations stated a Council Tax HMO as:

“Houses in multiple occupation, etc
Class C a dwelling which
(a)was originally constructed or subsequently adapted for occupation by persons who do not constitute a single household;
or
(b)is inhabited by a person who, or by two or more persons each of whom either—
(i)is a tenant of, or has a licence to occupy, part only of the dwelling; or
(ii)has a licence to occupy, but is not liable (whether alone or jointly with other persons) to pay rent or a licence fee in respect of, the dwelling as a whole.

Craig

[Adamna]

Re: Council Tax Liabilty Order issued yesteray

The owner of the property will have to pay the Council Tax if:

• No one is living there
• It is a residential care or nursing home
• It is occupied by a religious community or minister of religion
• It is only occupied by domestic service staff
• It is only occupied by asylum seekers
• It is a House in Multiple Occupation, that is, it contains a number (do not say how many) of people who:
  • Do not form a single household
  • Pay rent for different parts of the property (i.e. bedsits or bedrooms)
  • Share common facilities (bathroom, kitchen etc.)
  
  
• Sole or Joint Tenants of the property do not have access to the whole property - for example, the owner keeps one room locked for their own belongings or keeps the garage locked to store items. (Does this help some tenants/landlords?)

Where does this come from? I can't find any reference to it.

[Amethyst]

Re: Council Tax Liabilty Order issued yesteray

Where does this come from? I can't find any reference to it.

Normally on the council websites - http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/lgnl/...uncil_tax.aspx
https://www.canterbury.gov.uk/counci...-pay-the-bill/

etc.

[lgfa92]

Re: Council Tax Liabilty Order issued yesteray

Where does this come from? I can't find any reference to it.

It's a council paraphrasing the Council Tax HMO regulations - the last point however in bold regarding landlord keeping a locked room in the property does not always make it a Council Tax HMO (there have been tribunal cases on that same point).

Craig

[Adamna]

Re: Council Tax Liabilty Order issued yesteray

Thanks, yes it was the last phrase that I was curious about - I've not come across it before. What is the position if you let part of a property, and keep the rest in unoccupied stasis as the owner? For example if someone was abroad and used it to keep their personal belongings. The instance I'm thinking of, 2/3 are available, 1/3 not.

[lgfa92]

Re: Council Tax Liabilty Order issued yesteray

Thanks, yes it was the last phrase that I was curious about - I've not come across it before. What is the position if you let part of a property, and keep the rest in unoccupied stasis as the owner? For example if someone was abroad and used it to keep their personal belongings. The instance I'm thinking of, 2/3 are available, 1/3 not.

If you only specifically let part of a property then it would be a Council Tax HMO as they've not rented the whole property - if the the agreement was for the whole property and you left stuff in a locked room then (for example) it's a different situation.

Goremsandu v Harrow London BC [2010] RA 469 raised several issues but a key point was about occupancy and the landlord storing things in the conservatory. It was ruled not to be an issue as the tenants legally remained tenants of the whole property (the landlord had in this case lowered the rent to allow for the storage).

Craig

[Adamna]

Re: Council Tax Liabilty Order issued yesteray

Thank you. I suppose my thinking is that the (one) liable resident is rather unfairly taxed for a property larger than they have for their use. The rent may be adjusted, but the tax won't be. They would need to understand this and ask for a further rent reduction, perhaps.

[lgfa92]

Re: Council Tax Liabilty Order issued yesteray

Thank you. I suppose my thinking is that the (one) liable resident is rather unfairly taxed for a property larger than they have for their use. The rent may be adjusted, but the tax won't be. They would need to understand this and ask for a further rent reduction, perhaps.

Effectively yes - they'd be liable for council tax on a whole property however there is the fact that they've got less usable space if part is being used as storage by the landlord. A reduction in the rent would likely be the suitable response from the landlord.

Craig