Council CEO

[cards down]

The following is my letter ready for the big chief at my council, can anyone see any tweaking that may be required?

Council Tax Account Number ********* Liability Order Number ******* & *******

FORMAL COMPLAINT

Dear Sir

Following an unsatisfactory response from your head of revenues Mr ******, please see enclosed notes ***** to *****. I am left with no choice but to make a formal complaint. On **/**/**** I received a visit from a man who said his name was Mr ********, he informed me that he was a bailiff acting on your behalf and collecting for the above named account. I have in my possession proof that your appointed bailiff Mr ******* has proved to be untrustworthy on one account, has defrauded me on three accounts, and has levied incorrectly on two accounts. I understand that your appointed agent has not acted in compliance with the Council Tax Enforcement Regulations, and as you are vicariously liable for his actions, he has left you open to litigation.

To resolve this complaint I would ask that you:
1) Return the account to Council administration.
2) Instruct ******** to cease pursuing this account.
3) Refund all bailiff fees that have been applied to my account.
4) Supply me with a copy of all transactions that have gone through my account.
5) Make the necessary investigation as to why your appointed agent acted outside regulations.

If you are unwilling, or unable to resolve this complaint in full, please mark your response letter with the words FINAL RESOLUTION and I will ask the Local Ombudsman to intervene and adjudicate this matter.

Yours faithfully

[labman]

Re: Council CEO

Just to really rub salt into the wound, I'd add a sixth point asking what action will be taken against the Head of Revenues for laying the council open to litigation through not knowing his job correctly? He should, afterall, have taken the debt back himself if he has been given the opportunity.

It reads well.

:beagle::beagle:

[wales01man]

Re: Council CEO

Excellent letter i would send a copy to your MP councillor and councillor responsible for revenue department they all should now good luck hope you get the right result

[cards down]

Re: Council CEO

Thanks Labman, I will add the sixth point, as he now has a lot to answer for. Hi Wales01man i was intending to cc my local MP only forgot to put it on my draft copy, I wasn't aware of a councillor responsible for the revenues department so I'll look into that, thank you

[cards down]

Re: Council CEO

Council big wig has acknowledged my complaint according to his PA and it has been sent to another department. That same department have now given my complaint a number along with the expected response times, 10 working days for 1st step, 20 working days for 2nd step. Seems a very casual approach, is this an expected time scale for a formal complaint?

[labman]

Re: Council CEO

It sounds to me like it is being treated as a 'normal' complaint following the time limits of the council's normal complaints procedure.

Perhaps an e-mail to the CEO referring to some of the criminal aspects of this would be in order. I am sure a pm to Bluebottle would provide you with some good material.

[cards down]

Re: Council CEO

Labman I have just had a look at the councils complaints policy and you are correct. The CEO seems to have just side tracked my letter. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Speechless

[cards down]

Re: Council CEO

Reading in a little deeper it does state the formal complaints follow the above procedure, still seems a very relaxed way about it though :tinysmile_grin_t:

[labman]

Re: Council CEO

Have a read of the letter in the bailiffs section, in the sticky 'Useful Letters.' I think the template letter there is Letter number 5. I know this wasn't there when you wrote yo urs, but you will see that it takes a slightly different tack in order to try to avoid it getting passed back into the normal, run of the mill complaints.

I agree with you. Anything of a serious, and possibly criminal nature, such as this should be dealt with by the Executive's Office. I would be inclined to write and point that out, emphasising the criminal aspect, their vicarious liability for this and the fact that one of their senior staff has knowingly condoned this criminal behaviour.

[A54]

Re: Council CEO

Hi Cards down,

I sympathise with your situation, I have some limited experience with dealing council's CE's and will share whatever I can that may be useful.

in my case I sent a number of carefully worded emails to the ce, I basically laid my cards down (excuse the pun) and outlined 3 pretty major points where his staff acted deceptively and failed to follow procedure, I received a stonewall response even though I copied in the LGO and my MP.

I believe you are right to aim your letter at the CE however be careful when making threats about taking him to court, I would say imply it, say you are holding him responsible and that the reason you write to him is make him aware of the situation to give him an opportunity to act in his authority as ce.

If your council is anything like mine, you will receive a standard 'my staff acted properly' and 'we have an obligation to rate payers to collect' type response.

you mention bailiffs, do the council have an LO?

if you haven't done so so far, put in an SAR immediately to both council and bailiffs.

use your phone to video record everything if/when a bailiff attends, they won't like it but as they are either on your property (doorstep) or in a public place they can't stop you.

so far I found the mp and lgo useless, you can slap them with a big clear-as-day illegal action by the council and they wouldn't bat an eyelid.

good luck.

[A54]

Re: Council CEO

sorry, just seen they have got an LO.

Ask the bailiff to show you a copy of the LO and the authority they are acting on e.g. instructions from council, chances are they wont even have seen an LO never mind have one.

Even if you do not dispute the debt, go to the LO issuing magistrate's court asap and ask them for a copy of the LO. if they can't find it, ask them to verify in writing that an lo was issued on the specified day and who the judge was. in fact if they can't find the LO put your request to them in writing, record deliver the letter and keep the receipt.

you will get an interesting response.

simultaneously write to the council and ask them to see a wet signed copy of the LO.

doing this will give you some armour if the ce doesn't resolve the issues. this will also send signals to the council bigwigs.

[bluebottle]

Re: Council CEO

The best thing to do is to write to the Court Manager at the magistrates' court and ask them to confirm the date the LO was granted to the LA and which judge/JPs granted it.

If it transpires they have no record of having issued an LO against you, ask them to confirm this in writing.

I have come across cases where an LA has instructed bailiffs to attend a CT payer's home without a valid LO or no LO at all being in force. In such cases, not only is the bailiff acting illegally, but the LA is, too. And that is a very serious matter indeed.

[A54]

Re: Council CEO

Hi bluebottle,

what is the criteria required to determine if an LO is genuine?

I've researched this quite a bit and there's some grey areas.

I found a few points that help but is it fair to say that if the alleged issuing court cannot verify e.g. not find any trace or record of a hearing or LO being issued, it cannot be legally valid?

[labman]

Re: Council CEO

I think the most important thing to establish is the amount of the LO, as bailiffs have a common habit of adding fees to them before they even visit you.

You will be lucky to ever see a copy of the LO, as I suspect it doesn't exist. You'd also be foolish, in my opinion, to challenge this in court as they will never produce separate LO's with a court seal for bulk processing.

The argument is an interesting debate, but IMO futile in reality. The important issue is the amount of the LO gleaned directly from the council.

If you look at Question 4 under the following link in the Bailiff Stickies, you'll see what would normally be asked for when enquiring about a LO - without re-reading your entire thread, I don't know how much applies to you:

Council Tax - Legal Beagles Consumer Forum

[bluebottle]

Re: Council CEO

Hi bluebottle,

what is the criteria required to determine if an LO is genuine?

I've researched this quite a bit and there's some grey areas.

I found a few points that help but is it fair to say that if the alleged issuing court cannot verify e.g. not find any trace or record of a hearing or LO being issued, it cannot be legally valid?

The purpose of the LO is to legally say you owe the LA a sum of money in CT and enable them to enforce collection of it. Put the matter in writing to the Court Manager at the Magistrates' Court the LA say they obtained the LO from. Then, as recommended by Labman, ask the LA, in writing, to confirm the actual amount of the LO they claim they have in respect of your CT arrears. They don't have to go back to court if the amount is less than originally stated, but they do if it is more.

If the Court Manager cannot find any record of an LO against you and HMCTS cannot find any record at any other Magistrates' Court, it is a pretty clear indication that the LA do not have an LO. If this proves to be the case, Rossendales are on extremely dangerous ground legally. The LA could be as well.