Going round the houses!

[Catchalot]

I bought a freehold property at auction over three months ago on condition that I completed within fifty six days.

I paid my non-refundable reservation fee straight away and proceeded to instruct local solicitors to carry out the conveyance of the property.

After two weeks my solicitor informed me that contracts could not be exchanged because there appeared to be a land charge against the named owners in the deeds.

Because of this I contacted the Land Registry and found out that the property is not registered.
"No registered estate, caution against first registration or application for first registration or application for a caution against first registration is shown on the index map in relation to the Property. We therefore hold no records in respect of the Property."

I also checked with the County Council Local Land Charges Office to find there was nothing held against the Property.

This week the vendor's solicitor still has no details of the charge and is therefore unable to have this removed to allow me to complete.

I am at a total loss and frustrated at length of time this is taking. I am unable to retain the builder who was to do the renovation and after he spent a considerable time costing the project I have had to let him go.

Is there anything that I or my solicitor could be doing to speed the 'stalled' process?
Is there a registry of cautions or cautioners?

[Crazy council]

Re: Going round the houses!

Hi.

For older propertys, Sometimes a check against the local council paper records ( archives ) for the building can find records that the landreg dont have yet ( had to do this before ). If its a new building, there can be a lot to sort out before registration.

Also, the owners not knowing about some charge registered against them, my no be as suspicus as it sounds, possibly, could be something insignificant. In fact,if there is a charge registered against the property, then there should be some records/titles deads to charge it against.

The sales packs from the auction and the paperwork should list any conditions/time constraints for the owner.

[Catchalot]

Re: Going round the houses!

Many thanks Crazy Council. I have checked with both the local council and county council for any land charges and turned up nothing. There was no auction pack, just the usual details for the property from the estate agent.

Rumour has it that the charge was from the then Secretary of State thirty years ago but I have no more details.

Meanwhile I am anxiously waiting to secure the perimeter of the property and prevent the illegal access that is taking place. Damage has been done to garden furniture, fences, a greenhouse and a garden shed.

Is there any way can I stop this getting worse before exchange of contracts and completion?

[Amethyst]

Re: Going round the houses!

Does your solicitor have no more information about this charge and the nature of it? Does he have a copy of the deeds ? He must have something if he can see a land charge and is stopping the sale because of it. Does he know the class or when it was registered as a charge ?


https://www.gov.uk/government/public...d-cancellation

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1972/61/section/2 is the Land Charges act

[nemesis45]

Re: Going round the houses!

Many thanks Crazy Council. I have checked with both the local council and county council for any land charges and turned up nothing. There was no auction pack, just the usual details for the property from the estate agent.

Rumour has it that the charge was from the then Secretary of State thirty years ago but I have no more details.

Meanwhile I am anxiously waiting to secure the perimeter of the property and prevent the illegal access that is taking place. Damage has been done to garden furniture, fences, a greenhouse and a garden shed.

Is there any way can I stop this getting worse before exchange of contracts and completion?

The Secretary of State for which Government Department?

Is there any local " history" regarding the property?

nem

nem

[des8]

Re: Going round the houses!

Presumably the auctioneers have signed the memorandum of sale on behalf of the seller who is now unable to complete the sale on time.
The general conditions of sale should require the seller to sell with full title guarantee (which includes free of charges)
Accordingly I believe they are liable for damages and any extra costs you have to meet.

Regarding the damage subsequently sustained IMO the vendor should meet the cost of reinstating the property.
The vendor should insure the property until completion, as much as the purchaser should insure the property from the time the hammer falls. Depending on the level of damage and the policy cover a claim could be made for damage that has been caused by vandalism.

[Catchalot]

Re: Going round the houses!

Many thanks to you all for your input.
I did telephone my solicitor yesterday afternoon to inform them of the damage to the property.They were unavailable and the call was not returned.

I had already requested the land charge details four weeks ago after drawing a blank with the local councils. I therefore emailed them again this morning with a repeat request for the full details of the land charge and full details of the caution against first registration.

I await their reply like a mushroom in the dark!!

[Catchalot]

Re: Going round the houses!

My solicitor (actually a Client Property Progressor !) has replied saying that the vendor's solicitor still has no further details of the charge on the property. Apparently they are still waiting for the local authority searches to come back. (!) They were instructed twelve weeks ago.

Also the vendor's solicitor has confirmed that the vendor is agreeable to exchanging and completing as soon as possible and allowing me to retain £10k of the purchase price until such time as the charge is removed.

Without any detailed knowledge of the charge I think this course of action would be unwise. This is all becoming a bit Kafkaesque!

Any comments and advice would be most welcome.

[Crazy council]

Re: Going round the houses!

be carfull here [MENTION=70966]Catchalot[/MENTION]. If your proceeding without understanding the charge, make sure your solicitor is fully bonded/insured incase you have to claim.

Also the vendor's solicitor has confirmed that the vendor is agreeable to exchanging and completing as soon as possible and allowing me to retain £10k of the purchase price until such time as the charge is removed.

is the charge less than 10k,,, also, its odd, the legal docs required to protect you and the vendor, duing this exchange would need writing specifically, and the solicitors would charge, it would probably cost > £ 1,200 just in solicitors fees to draw it up.

everything may be fine, but proceed with caution here, some charges can incure up to 8% interest from when they started, make sure you solisitor is a proper solicitor with experience, and not just a property exchage type

[nemesis45]

Re: Going round the houses!

My solicitor (actually a Client Property Progressor !) has replied saying that the vendor's solicitor still has no further details of the charge on the property. Apparently they are still waiting for the local authority searches to come back. (!) They were instructed twelve weeks ago.

Also the vendor's solicitor has confirmed that the vendor is agreeable to exchanging and completing as soon as possible and allowing me to retain £10k of the purchase price until such time as the charge is removed.

Without any detailed knowledge of the charge I think this course of action would be unwise. This is all becoming a bit Kafkaesque!

Any comments and advice would be most welcome.

These historical searches are often a problem we had one relating
to a property that had at one time been to some " ecclesiastical law"
in the end we just ignored it and went ahead with the purchase with
no problem the charge was labelled as " Archaic ".
nem

[des8]

Re: Going round the houses!

You could also consider effecting an indemnity insurance, at vendors cost!
It may need a little research to find a specialist insurer to take it on, as you are already aware that a charge (archaic or not) (extant or not) does exist.
Your solicitor should be able to do this for you.

[Catchalot]

Re: Going round the houses!

Here's an update on the Land Charge:

Chargee: Secretaty of State for Social Services. (Alexander Fleming House, Elephant and Castle, London)
Date: January 1984.
Class: C Sub-Class (i)

My solicitor states that the vendors solicitor have sent numerous emails to Social Services, hospitals in the region and local authorities.

So far nobody has any idea of how much the charge was for or even what it was for!

[Amethyst]

Re: Going round the houses!

Try a google with your address with companies house beta site. ( worth a try )

For example: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...j90MgXT1qNhoFw
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/c...GQeR8rkgmbn6rk

[Amethyst]

Re: Going round the houses!

Class C - sub class i is a puisne mortgage

(i)a puisne mortgage is a legal mortgage which is not protected by a deposit of documents relating to the legal estate affected;

Puisne mortgage

A legal mortgage of unregistered land that is not protected by the mortgagor depositing the title deeds to the land with the mortgagee. Invariably, a puisne mortgage will be a second or subsequent mortgage as the first mortgagee usually insists that the title deeds to the mortgaged land are deposited with it.

( doesn't mean much to me tbh)

[Amethyst]

Re: Going round the houses!

Try emailing customer.service@landregistry.gsi.gov.uk or calling them and explain the situation to them - they are the peeps who would know how to remove it.