Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

[Amethyst]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

Probably makes it tougher for you that you have sympathy with her situation, I would be the same.... it does feel a bit like getting rid of him would help a lot, but if she is as vulnerable as it sounds, she might just follow him and end up in a worse situation. Informing benefits would likely mean your rent doesn't get paid too. My parents have just evicted a tenant of 20 years as she had worsening mental and physical health conditions and my parents were ending up acting as full time carers. Tough call all round but you have to put your needs first and it sounds like you have already gone more than out of your way to help her. I think all you can do is steel yourself to go through the process/system with the section 21 and then eviction if necessary.

[bb41]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

Probably makes it tougher for you that you have sympathy with her situation, I would be the same.... it does feel a bit like getting rid of him would help a lot, but if she is as vulnerable as it sounds, she might just follow him and end up in a worse situation. Informing benefits would likely mean your rent doesn't get paid too. My parents have just evicted a tenant of 20 years as she had worsening mental and physical health conditions and my parents were ending up acting as full time carers. Tough call all round but you have to put your needs first and it sounds like you have already gone more than out of your way to help her. I think all you can do is steel yourself to go through the process/system with the section 21 and then eviction if necessary.

I'm glad I'm not the only empathetic LL, I just had a txt saying there are two socket faces that need replacing so my husband is going round later to have a look but I have also booked an electrical engineer to go in Thursday
I live 80 miles away but my husband works not too far 3 days a week.

He is going to suss out the situation for me and see what is occurring , it's so odd that you do everything right and yet get penalised.

This property was always going to be my pension, so a loss whatever way you look at it

[bb41]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

My husband has just returned and it wasn't good news. They have no intentions of leaving until bailiffs evict them as they say they can't afford to pay rent anymore so paying a deposit for her is not an option now.

The other half was skulking in one of the bedrooms , but apparently the kitchen is a mess and needs a complete refurbishment , all the worktops are ruined and god knows who has relied to do some DIY as it's failed miserably.

I have to face facts and accept it will be a long process and my husband and I have decided to sell our house and release funds to assist in getting them out and do the necessary work to maximise the potential sale.
A possible bank loan will be necessary which is a position I thought I'd never be in.

[Wylderose]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

I am so sorry that your tenant and her partner have placed you in such a stressful position.

Evicting tenants is not as straightforward as most people think. Please don't go hastily down the route of bank loans or selling your existing property just yet and whatever you do, don't pay them to leave. Do not think with your heart, think with your head because there is no quick and easy way of evicting your tenants and tenants who leave voluntarily when the Section 21 expires can be few and far between. They will hang on until the bailiffs are at the door because this is the only way to get the council to rehouse them when they have no-where to go.

However, as you say your tenant has rent arrears for which she has not kept to the repayment plans. This in itself is a contributory factor to making oneself "intentionally homeless"

The Partner - if you suspect that Housing Benefit are not aware of him, then by all means tell them. Yes, the claim may get suspended but at the end of the day if your suspicions about him being an unknown entity on her claim are correct then she is committing fraud and you need to protect your own back. Housing Benefits will always go the extra mile to protect a tenancy if there is any possibility of keeping a claimant in the property - simply because a roof over her head means that she does not end up in homeless accommodation which costs hundreds of pounds per week and/or it also keeps the children out of the child protection system which costs even more.

If fraud is proven and it is found that you had prior knowledge, then, if the rent is paid directly to you, you could leave yourself wide open to recovery of any fraudulent over-payment on the claim being recovered from yourself. From what I have read you just don't need this on top of every thing else.

Given the fact that there are continual repairs/damages that the tenant and her partner may/may not be causing, you might want to consider whether it is worth following the standard eviction route or trying to obtain an accelerated eviction. I don't know what the level of rent arrears is but you may be able to get a accelerated eviction if you don't seek to obtain a judgement for the rent arrears when applying for possession. However to use this you must have served a Section 21 with a minimum of 2 months notice period. It is quicker than the conventional eviction process but you are still looking at about 8-10 weeks. You can apply for these separate judgement on the rent arrears, but given their financial position you may never see anything paid back.

Gov.uk - is one of the sites that we often refer landlords to when they need general help on evicting tenants. (https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants)
Citizen's Advice Bureau may also be able to help you prepare your court papers and possibly help you to find pro bono help.
Another place that could be very helpful for you is the Landlord's Law Blog.

Paying your tenant to leave - don't do it! If they even think that you would offer them any financial inducement to leave, their price could be more than you could afford.

Housing Benefits have funding available under the guise of Discretionary Housing Payments. This is funding that is made available by central government to assist claimants who have substantial shortfalls in their Housing Benefit and struggle to meet their full rent liability. Discretionary Housing Payments can be paid to top up rent until the claimant can find alternative accommodation if they under occupy their property. It can also be paid for removal costs and in some instances to cover the deposit on another tenancy. So your tenant has an avenue of help available to her via her local council.

Hang in there and don't give up hope. Good luck

[bb41]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

I am so sorry that your tenant and her partner have placed you in such a stressful position.

Evicting tenants is not as straightforward as most people think. Please don't go hastily down the route of bank loans or selling your existing property just yet and whatever you do, don't pay them to leave. Do not think with your heart, think with your head because there is no quick and easy way of evicting your tenants and tenants who leave voluntarily when the Section 21 expires can be few and far between. They will hang on until the bailiffs are at the door because this is the only way to get the council to rehouse them when they have no-where to go.

However, as you say your tenant has rent arrears for which she has not kept to the repayment plans. This in itself is a contributory factor to making oneself "intentionally homeless"

The Partner - if you suspect that Housing Benefit are not aware of him, then by all means tell them. Yes, the claim may get suspended but at the end of the day if your suspicions about him being an unknown entity on her claim are correct then she is committing fraud and you need to protect your own back. Housing Benefits will always go the extra mile to protect a tenancy if there is any possibility of keeping a claimant in the property - simply because a roof over her head means that she does not end up in homeless accommodation which costs hundreds of pounds per week and/or it also keeps the children out of the child protection system which costs even more.

If fraud is proven and it is found that you had prior knowledge, then, if the rent is paid directly to you, you could leave yourself wide open to recovery of any fraudulent over-payment on the claim being recovered from yourself. From what I have read you just don't need this on top of every thing else.

Given the fact that there are continual repairs/damages that the tenant and her partner may/may not be causing, you might want to consider whether it is worth following the standard eviction route or trying to obtain an accelerated eviction. I don't know what the level of rent arrears is but you may be able to get a accelerated eviction if you don't seek to obtain a judgement for the rent arrears when applying for possession. However to use this you must have served a Section 21 with a minimum of 2 months notice period. It is quicker than the conventional eviction process but you are still looking at about 8-10 weeks. You can apply for these separate judgement on the rent arrears, but given their financial position you may never see anything paid back.

Gov.uk - is one of the sites that we often refer landlords to when they need general help on evicting tenants. (https://www.gov.uk/evicting-tenants)
Citizen's Advice Bureau may also be able to help you prepare your court papers and possibly help you to find pro bono help.
Another place that could be very helpful for you is the Landlord's Law Blog.

Paying your tenant to leave - don't do it! If they even think that you would offer them any financial inducement to leave, their price could be more than you could afford.

Housing Benefits have funding available under the guise of Discretionary Housing Payments. This is funding that is made available by central government to assist claimants who have substantial shortfalls in their Housing Benefit and struggle to meet their full rent liability. Discretionary Housing Payments can be paid to top up rent until the claimant can find alternative accommodation if they under occupy their property. It can also be paid for removal costs and in some instances to cover the deposit on another tenancy. So your tenant has an avenue of help available to her via her local council.

Hang in there and don't give up hope. Good luck

Thank you all that makes sense, I've pulled myself together this morning and have had to accept that it will take months to get them out ,and even when I do a lot of money to put right before selling

I suppose any money I spend will go against my capital gains bill but not the loss of rent that's for sure.

Thank you all for all your help I'll keep you posted

[Crazy council]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

Hi [MENTION=50128]bb41[/MENTION]

Hi, will try have a full read through tomorrow see if i can chip in. I was a property manager for many years, dont do it now, but still deal with harder evictions, have dealt with similar situations for landlords,

[bb41]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

Hi @bb41

Hi, will try have a full read through tomorrow see if i can chip in. I was a property manager for many years, dont do it now, but still deal with harder evictions, have dealt with similar situations for landlords,

Thank you any input at all would be so helpful

[bb41]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

I have just been going through paperwork and the tenancy started in April 2005 , a deposit was paid by the HB office, my problem now is will my section 21 be null and void as it was not protected

[jaguarsuk]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

[MENTION=50128]bb41[/MENTION]

This is awful news and I really feel for you, if they're telling you they can't even afford to pay rent and in receipt of housing benefit I'd definitely be reporting them. Why should they pocket money from the tax payer meant to pay their rent while you struggle.

You have been a good landlady, you have gone above and beyond what your obligations were and most people who rent (me included) would love to have a Landlady like you.

Good Luck

[Crazy council]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

Hi

Do you have a copy of the tenancy contract. ( names redacted )

Your probebly correct about the section 21 but all is not lost. will read through tomorrw and put a few questions.

Usualy, bugging them ( legally ) , ie, doing inspections, arrainging works that take days, start to work, Also, speaking to them, whilst on the front ( at 6pm when neigbours are home ) talking about the situation there leaving you in..

[Kati]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

I have just been going through paperwork and the tenancy started in April 2005 , a deposit was paid by the HB office, my problem now is will my section 21 be null and void as it was not protected

Hi

Do you have a copy of the tenancy contract. ( names redacted )

Your probebly correct about the section 21 but all is not lost. will read through tomorrw and put a few questions.

Usualy, bugging them ( legally ) , ie, doing inspections, arrainging works that take days, start to work, Also, speaking to them, whilst on the front ( at 6pm when neigbours are home ) talking about the situation there leaving you in..

I'd be quite happy to redact and post up documents if needed ... all I need is the docs and a link to this thread xx

[bb41]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

Hi

Do you have a copy of the tenancy contract. ( names redacted )

Your probebly correct about the section 21 but all is not lost. will read through tomorrw and put a few questions.

Usualy, bugging them ( legally ) , ie, doing inspections, arrainging works that take days, start to work, Also, speaking to them, whilst on the front ( at 6pm when neigbours are home ) talking about the situation there leaving you in..

From the conversation my husband had yesterday they want to be re-housed... my tenancy agreement got burnt down in an office fire in 2008 , however I do have the agreement with the council and myself setting out the tenancy as it was a basic tenancy agreement .

I may do a section 8 on arrears and state of the place as if I go back I think if I add up all the slight underpayments and erratic nature of the payments, plus payment plans arranged with the housing officers that tenant has defaulted on I'm sure it will go well over the 2 months necessary .

I live 80 miles from the property but my husband works nearby 3 days a week so I can get him to serve the section 8 papers and get a signed copy with a months notice .

I have to fight fire with fire now and throw every conceivable section possible

They are having a lovely new bathroom fitted and I'd hate to see that ruined waiting for eviction so time is of the essence . I have another property rented out long term and never once have I had this so HB will never be an option ever again and when the other house is empty that will be sold as well , although that is also a long term property and is immaculate and has actually added value .

I will post a copy on here but probably wont help much

[bb41]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

just gone through all the documents I have and the housing benefit paid one month is advance March 2005 , would that be classed as a deposit ? The tenant didn't pay anything ...you can tell what I have been doing all day !!

[ostell]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

That would look like a deposit as housing benefit is paid in arrears. And whoever paid it will probably want it back!

It's no wonder people are reluctant to rent to people on HB, it's stressful. On the other hand I did have one tenant who was so good with the property that I let her off the last months rent because she had (with permission) decorated so well. I sold up when the next tenant left with couple of months rent owing and some damage that I had to repair.

[bb41]

Re: Selling my tenanted property with vacant possession

That would look like a deposit as housing benefit is paid in arrears. And whoever paid it will probably want it back!

It's no wonder people are reluctant to rent to people on HB, it's stressful. On the other hand I did have one tenant who was so good with the property that I let her off the last months rent because she had (with permission) decorated so well. I sold up when the next tenant left with couple of months rent owing and some damage that I had to repair.

I suppose you are correct but isn't the 2k arrears going to counteract that ?