Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

[William Gruff]

Hello

My wife and I are the sole tenants and occupiers of a privately rented property which consists of an end of terrace house with gardens and a garden shed. We have lived in the house for almost two years and eleven months, initially on a six month assured shorthold agreement. The landlord lives abroad and the property is 'managed' by an estate agent. The property is currently being repainted externally and we are having irritatingly familiar problems with the decorator, which seem to be based on his apparent belief that he has more rights over the property than we, a belief that seems, from our experience, to be common amongst tradesmen who service the private rented sector. To cut a long story short, he has not been here since Thursday, 4th inst., although he does not appear to have finished the job, but has left his ladders at the side of the house (in an awkward position - he could have placed them at the other side of the side entrance path, where they couldn't have caused an obstruction, which suggests a possible intention to annoy) without asking our permission, which is what particularly annoys me (there have been other annoyances). I wish to remove them and place them in the alleyway / ginnell at the the rear of the property, where they will not be secure. My questions are:

1) Do I lay myself open to a claim for liability if, as a result of my placing them in an insecure place outside the property, they are stolen? Could I be held to have been in the wrong if, regardless of whether his action is in any way improper or not, he suffers loss by my action?

2) Am I obliged to inform anyone of my intended actions, assuming that I am able to carry out my intention without incurring a penalty?

My thanks in advance for any replies.

[wales01man]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

Whydont you ask him to move them or tell him you will move them to a safer place on the property easy at that?

[William Gruff]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

Whydont you ask him to move them or tell him you will move them to a safer place on the property easy at that?

I can't ask him to move them as I haven't seen him since Thursday morning and I can't tell him that I wish to move them for the same reason. I don't want them on the property, since my wife and I rent it for our exclusive use and do not consent to his, or anyone else's, using it as an equipment store without our consent. He has, throughout, shown us considerable discourtesy and completely disregarded our rights as tenants, which he seems to regard as an irrelevance. The property that we have made our home in may be owned by someone else and managed by an agent on his behalf but subject to certain legal obligations we have some control over access to it and use of it. Had he done me the courtesy of asking first I would happily have consented. The man's behaviour, although all too common, is unacceptable to us, especially in our home. Should I do nothing now he will undoubtedly feel entitled to treat us, and perhaps others, in the same manner in future and he needs to be shown that we are in charge here, not he. I intend to remove his ladders if I can do so without laying myself open to some sort of civil or criminal proceedings, which was the point of my questions.

Thank you for your reply.

[gravytrain]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

Remove the ladders to a safe place preferably away form the front of the house, send an e-mail that you have done this.
Then ask him why he has such obvious obvious disregard for the safety of the inhabitants, and for the landlords property that he would leave a ladder for the convenience of any passing burglar.
You feel you may have to contact the manager/ land lord if it happens again.

[gravytrain]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

As to the civil ramifications of moving his property whilst on your premises, there are non, as long as they are not damaged,

In fact if you trip or injure yourself because they are in the wrong place you could sue for breach of common law duty of care.

You may rent the house but it is yours whilst you pay rent, and you have a perfect right to say who does what ond there. Even the landlord has to make an appointment to see you.

If it was my house i would boot him out and stick his ladder where the sun don't shine,

[William Gruff]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

Remove the ladders to a safe place preferably away form the front of the house, send an e-mail that you have done this.
Then ask him why he has such obvious obvious disregard for the safety of the inhabitants, and for the landlords property that he would leave a ladder for the convenience of any passing burglar.
You feel you may have to contact the manager/ land lord if it happens again.

Thanks again for your reply, however, I was hoping for answers to my specific questions regarding the complete removal of his equipment from the property, notwithstanding that moving it to a less inconvenient position suggests that I am prepared to look after his equipment, which I am most definitely not. I can't e-mail him as I have no idea who he is or what firm he works for and I don't have an e-mail address for the agent, whom I cannot call until Monday morning at the earliest, besides which he doesn't seem the sort likely to engage in polite exchanges about legal niceties. His attitude so far effectively amounts to '**** you' and I'll wager that is the only response, albeit in other words and gestures, he'll understand. I can't be sure but I suspect that his disregard is rooted in some sort of resentment, possibly class based, that he is able to indulge with private tenants but not private owners. Perhaps he's a powerless man who feels he has a little power when dealing with people in our circumstances. Whether or not his motives are irrelevant. I didn't consent to his leaving his equipment on the property my wife and I rent and I'm not prepared to tolerate it's presence, whether or not it is placed safely. As for contacting the agent: it was the agent who, he claims, told him he could just walk right into the back garden, without any introduction, and without the prior written notice to which we are legally entitled.

With the greatest respect, can you answer either of the two questions in my original post, without suggesting alternative courses of action that I have no intention of following and have already ruled out? You're not helping me otherwise, although it is kind of you to take the trouble to reply. I only want to know whether or not I can be held liable should he suffer any material loss, or possibly face civil or criminal proceedings, if I remove his equipment from the property. I have no intention of treading the long worn out path of 'reasonableness'.

[William Gruff]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

As to the civil ramifications of moving his property whilst on your premises, there are non, as long as they are not damaged,

In fact if you trip or injure yourself because they are in the wrong place you could sue for breach of common law duty of care.

You may rent the house but it is yours whilst you pay rent, and you have a perfect right to say who does what ond there. Even the landlord has to make an appointment to see you.

If it was my house i would boot him out and stick his ladder where the sun don't shine,

Thanks for that, which I saw after I'd posted my reply to your comment immediately before it.

I shan't damage them, although it is possible that someone else could, or steal them, if I put them in the ginnell, and that is what I wish to know: could I be held liable if they are stolen or damaged by party or parties unknown because I have removed them from the property? I have no intention of moving the ladders to another place on the property, they are going to be removed entirely from it, if I can remove them without subsequently being held liable for any damage or loss.

[Eloise01]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

Oh for goodness sake. There are plenty of people living in rented property who can't get their landlord to do any maintenance or repairs, and you are seeing plots and deliberate intentions to annoy you in where a pair of ladders have been placed. The workman has been missing one working day, has not finished the maintencance job and so has left his equipment there to do so. You have said that you have gardens and a shed - if the ladders are in an inconvenient place then move then to somewhere else on the property within the garden area. I think you are being entirely unreasonable and bloody minded - and you very definietly are doing so deliberately.

[wales01man]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

I expect if you remove the ladders from the property and they were stolen he could make an accusation of theft against you ?Any reasonable person would at the very least contact the landlords agent first after putting the ladders in a more convienent place on the property,as and ex builder working on domestic property i encountered many people who was some reason didnt like equipment scaffolding next to their property never some one who wanted to remove same that was used to carry out work on their property?

[Inca]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

He has only not been there for 1 working day,and no doubt has other jobs ongoing...I think if you move them to an 'open' area (ie the ginnel)..you may open a huge can of worms for yourself.
Reading some threads on here you should be thankful you have a landlord that keeps the property maintained,,plenty don't.
Ring the agent tomorrow to ask if said decorater is returning,,if you start making demands they may start seeing you as a 'problem tenant'

[gravytrain]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

Thanks again for your reply, however, I was hoping for answers to my specific questions regarding the complete removal of his equipment from the property, notwithstanding that moving it to a less inconvenient position suggests that I am prepared to look after his equipment, which I am most definitely not. I can't e-mail him as I have no idea who he is or what firm he works for and I don't have an e-mail address for the agent, whom I cannot call until Monday morning at the earliest, besides which he doesn't seem the sort likely to engage in polite exchanges about legal niceties. His attitude so far effectively amounts to '**** you' and I'll wager that is the only response, albeit in other words and gestures, he'll understand. I can't be sure but I suspect that his disregard is rooted in some sort of resentment, possibly class based, that he is able to indulge with private tenants but not private owners. Perhaps he's a powerless man who feels he has a little power when dealing with people in our circumstances. Whether or not his motives are irrelevant. I didn't consent to his leaving his equipment on the property my wife and I rent and I'm not prepared to tolerate it's presence, whether or not it is placed safely. As for contacting the agent: it was the agent who, he claims, told him he could just walk right into the back garden, without any introduction, and without the prior written notice to which we are legally entitled.

With the greatest respect, can you answer either of the two questions in my original post, without suggesting alternative courses of action that I have no intention of following and have already ruled out? You're not helping me otherwise, although it is kind of you to take the trouble to reply. I only want to know whether or not I can be held liable should he suffer any material loss, or possibly face civil or criminal proceedings, if I remove his equipment from the property. I have no intention of treading the long worn out path of 'reasonableness'.

Specifically, I would not remove his possessions from your property, I don't really see why you would want to.( and there is the "legal nicety" of your duty of care) I was under the mistaken impression that they were causing you some real inconvenience/ harm.

It seems that you are using the situation to score points with the landlord because of some personal issues you may have.

It appears other members have assessed your position more correctly, their advice is more appropriated to your needs on this occasion

[wales01man]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

Gravytrain
think you hit the nail on the head the ladders are not the problem moving them on the property so they were not in the way would be too easy the OP has to consider the fact they are not causing that much of a problem just an excuse to create a problem?

[Eloise01]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

To be fair GT, I think the only person exhibiting class based bias here is the OP, and you weren't to know.

When I have repairs done to my large renovated farmhouse situated in an idyllic country setting, which I own, it never occurred to me to think that leaving their equipment over the weekend was a proletarian plot to overthrow capitalism and the rights of man. I must say that I never expected such subtlety when the revolution came...

[wales01man]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

Eloise
You made me jealous i dream of a house in the country with land to keep chickens?

[Inca]

Re: Decorator Has Left Equipment on Private Rented Property - I Wish to Remove

Eloise
You made me jealous i dream of a house in the country with land to keep chickens?

It gets worse wales...ask her where she is at present and why msl: