Access Removed to Manhole & Wastewater pipe

[atticus]

I share your doubts about the information an SAR will yield. The information you seek is not your personal data.

[tesla6518]

Atticus sensible idea, however planning departsment frown upon this as it involves putting in bends etc, which apparently can cause further problems..

Best idea is for the neighbour to bite the bullet and get a sealable manhole cover that has the ability to accept tiles. if the tiles are too big they can get made to measure manhole covers. I understand how your neighbours must feel as we have similar tiles, singularly they are not that expensive, howver they only sell them in quantities of 5 and carriage on top £35 makes it an expensive outing

[RedRuby]

Yes that’s correct Tesla6518. I don’t know why they have not done this with the manhole cover in their kitchen extension. Which to be honest, worries me. When the previous neighbours built the rear extension on that property, they dug down, really far down. I’ve realised they possibly went down to the level of the actual lateral drain. So I am wondering what happened to the original drain. I’ve been on our Council website and looked at all the plans and documentation available with regards to the extension and there is no mention of wastage or drainage. Diddly squat.

I’ve located the original Deeds from when our property was purchased and in them is indeed ‘The Conveyance’ which is ‘Copy Plan Filed’. It is a pretty basic drawing and not totally accurate. I have redrawn it as thought it not wise to post the original on an open forum. The numbers and names have been changed for privacy.

[RedRuby]

The highlighted areas in pink are the ‘combined drain’ as spoken about in the extract from the Title Register upthread. 199 is our property and is blacked out on the original plan just as I have shown here.

The part of the shared lateral drain I am interested in is the one which runs at the back of the properties and highlighted in pink just as it is on the original plan. The little black lines going into the little black squares are the manholes. The outbuildings on the back of each property are the outside toilets. These toilets no longer exist as kitchen extensions have been built on the back of the properties since. However, the drainage should in theory have remained the same.

[RedRuby]

The areas highlighted in pink are the ‘combined drain’ as noted in the extract from the Deeds posted upthread. The original drawing mentions the areas ‘delineated in pink’ as being the ‘combined drain’.

I am interested in the highlighted pink line running at the rear of the properties. This is the combined lateral drain I have been talking about.

The small black lines going into the small black squares are the wastewater pipes going into the manholes. The outbuildings adjoined to the rear of each property are the outside toilets which have since been demolished and the rear of the properties are now kitchen extensions. In theory, the drainage should still be the same.

Our property is 199 and is blacked out just as it is on the original drawing.

[RedRuby]

I don’t seem to be able to write anything. My posts are not being published.

[atticus]

EXC can you liberate the OP's posts please.

[RedRuby]

Thank you Atticus.

I have been trying to post an explanation of the above diagram but whenever I try to publish it, it is disallowed. I have no idea why.

I will try again tomorrow and hope the blip has been sorted by then.

[EXC]

Sorry, it's the spam filter misfiring. Posts liberated.

[tesla6518]

Hi Redruby could you explain why all the other properties have manhole's, yet you say "Access to this part of my pipe can only be gained from their manhole which has had an extension built over it and is tiled over in expensive looking tiles" why would your property not have the same configuration.
also why can you not access the sewer from one of the other houses as they are all covered by the same easement terms.

If you get the right company they can inspect the drain using a robot rather than just a camera on the end of an endless fibreglass rod, these units have dual rubber tracks and are very efficient and versatile.

With regards to the sewer pipes and extensions, I would approach your local planning department and ask them to explain if and what restrictions were applied to the planning consent in relation to the sewer system

[PallasAthena]

Tesla6518 suggested I put a SAR in with my Water Company to ask if they have formally adopted our shared lateral drain or not. I have a query regards this; isn’t a SAR for the purpose of asking an org what personal information they hold on you? Is a SAR the correct form for asking about whether or not they have adopted our private shared drain? Or is a Freedom of Information request a better way or asking for this information? Or something else perhaps?

You are correct that an SAR will only give you information they hold about you personally so unlikely to tell you anything about the status of the drains, especially about events before you even moved in. A FOI request would be more appropriate although a simple request should get you what you want anyway as this is probably information they make public to anyone with an interest in it, such as you..

[tesla6518]

Sorry it was an FOI that I meant to suggest, however the other side of my brain made me type SAR

[RedRuby]

tesla6518

Hi Redruby could you explain why all the other properties have manhole's, yet you say "Access to this part of my pipe can only be gained from their manhole which has had an extension built over it and is tiled over in expensive looking tiles" why would your property not have the same configuration.

My property does have a manhole. Please see the sketch attached for insight. I have drawn this as the Copy Plan Filed has my property blacked out in it and all I did was copy it. I did say in post #18 “It is a pretty basic drawing and not totally accurate.”

The drain which empties my wastewater into the shared lateral/combined drain runs from my land under the party wall between myself and my neighbours at 197 and empties itself into the shared/combined drain under what is now my neighbours kitchen extension. Please see the sketch attached for insight.

If you recall from my earlier posts I said I wanted to put a rat flap on my drain, the opening of which is under the manhole cover which has been tiled over and inaccessible to me. The rats are coming up the shared lateral drain from the direction of my neighbours at 195 and 197, which is why I need access to my drain opening at 197.




also why can you not access the sewer from one of the other houses as they are all covered by the same easement terms.

I can access the sewer. What I can’t access is half of my wastewater pipe now under my neighbours property at 197 because the manhole is inaccessible and this is where the opening of my wastewater pipe is located.

When the Water Company man was here and put his camera pipe in my manhole and looked under their property, he got so far and then said he couldn’t go any further. Something to do with an angle. I was watching the live footage on the screen as the camera was down there. In theory there shouldn’t be an angle but my guess is that the drainage got changed when the extension was built but it is not on public record.



If you get the right company they can inspect the drain using a robot rather than just a camera on the end of an endless fibreglass rod, these units have dual rubber tracks and are very efficient and versatile.

Thank you. If we ie. myself and the neighbours are still bound by the covenant in the Title Deeds then I am prepared to pay for a proportion of the cost for this as specified in the Conveyance (see post #6): as indicated on the said plan she and they paying a fair proportion of the expense of keeping the same in repair



With regards to the sewer pipes and extensions, I would approach your local planning department and ask them to explain if and what restrictions were applied to the planning consent in relation to the sewer system.

Thank you. Will do.

[RedRuby]

PallasAthena

You are correct that an SAR will only give you information they hold about you personally so unlikely to tell you anything about the status of the drains, especially about events before you even moved in. A FOI request would be more appropriate although a simple request should get you what you want anyway as this is probably information they make public to anyone with an interest in it, such as you..

Thank you.

I have since been on the ICO website and there appears to be specific ways they prefer you to contact a Water Authority by and specific information they feel a water authority should release. It isn’t as transparent or as easy as I had hoped. This might explain why the guy on the phone in my Water Authority’s Developer’s office wouldn’t state for certain, either way, whether the drainage for our property was private or maintained by them. I had probed them for this last year.

I shall go for the FOI option I think but I feel I may be completely wasting my time. Since my previous post #9, I have been able to access the drainage/sewerage map of our properties via Digdat as held by our Water Authority. It is incomplete and inaccurate. One of my neighbours possesses no manholes or drains or connection to the sewer according to their map. It looks like my Water Authority may have even less of an idea than I do.

If it was just the adoption of private sewers under Section 102 of the Water Industry Act 1991 legislation, it would be a simple matter, simply put, we wouldn’t meet the criteria for adoption. We would have a private sewer and be solely responsible for it’s maintenance and the water authority would have nowt to do with it. The 2011 legislation casts a grey area over it however and I just can’t seem to get my head around it.

[tesla6518]

Hi Again Redruby. thanks for the drawing, however case like this are better off seen, do you have any photos of your drain, From what you describe you are talking about waste water such as from the sink and washing machine etc, not raw sewage from the toilet. If this is the case then as a temporary measure, until you get a satisfactory solution, why not get some coarse stainless wire wool and form a plug in the pipe under the drain cover, it will be loose enough to allow water to pass yet will stop rats getting up. As I say it would only be a temporary measure.

When the guy put the camera through the pipe work and came across the angle that stopped the survey, did give you the distance travelled by the camera. This is usual so that you can measure to where the angle is. Also Is it possible he went past the inspection pit of 197 and continued to the combined drain link to the main sewage, that would have been a left hand angle.

Just another point, did he give you a copy of the inspection camera recording, this would also help you to diagnose the pipework.