Deposit again

[steveeasy]

Hello,
Ok we were tenants with the same property for 5 years. Were given 2 months notice and found alternative accommodation. spent 4 days cleaning the house. bathroom painted well. kitchen as good as we found it. cleaned every cupboard. oven spotless after 5 years use. cleaned all downstairs carpets. one carpet damaged so happy to pay for replacement.

Two weeks after moving out, had to chase agents for their check out report. when it was sent to us they wanted to do a complete clean 120.00 they wanted to shampoo every carpet 175. the agent then went to great effort to slander us for removing smoke alarms and informed us the landlord had now to buy new ones. I informed the agent that 4 years ago they both had low warning buzzer going off all the time. took them down to replace batteries, they however were the type you could not change batteries. on the inspection the agents noted this but did nothing about them. I suggested it was the agents responsibility to get them replaced or deal with the matter. it did not go down well. we were also told off for not cleaning windows.

the house came with a gardener and window cleaner provided. I notified the agent of this. I informed her the window cleaner had never ever been. she came back to me saying id sent the window cleaner away so they terminated that part of the contract. for clarity ive never ever seen the window cleaner. I spent some time on our last week cleaning the door windows and frames to return the house in good order. I suggested a £300 refund to cover no window cleaning for 5 years.

Basically told accept the deductions and she will not respond any further on the matter. that was three weeks ago. ive emailed her this weekend just to ask if the property had professional cleaning before we rented it, if so ill accept the deductions she had proposed. she wont respond.

So,
the tenancy is between us and the agent, with the landlord that. I initially thought id seek the £300 from the landlord but now I think I should sue the agent. can I pursue the agent for being so difficult and not answering questions which although frustrating to an agent are reasonable .

any advice appreciated.


Steveeasy

[efpom]

No - you cannot sue the agent. Your agreement is with the landlord as principal.

[jaguarsuk]

And also, why are you accepting the carpet cleaning bill and house clean, it's not for you to pay the landlord so they can rent the property out again. Check your tenancy, you don't pay for fair wear and tear. That the property isn't pristine and that the carpets aren't the same as brand new is to be expected as fair wear and tear.

In any event if you do want to accept those you should say that you want the invoices for those as if you are paying for them you are entitled to the receipt.

Further I would inform them that by not cleaning the windows that they were in breach of the tenancy agreement for the full five years and you may consider issuing proceedings against them without further reference to them in the County Court for damages due to breach of contract.

Or they can just refund your whole deposit as you had expected and we'll all say no more about it.

[steveeasy]

thank you for the advice.

Ive tried everything. Ive asked for proof that the property was properly cleaned with receipts before we took the tenancy on. no response. Ive asked them to check there inspection records regarding smoke alarms, no response. I have been told they terminated the window cleaning service cos I sent the window cleaner away. We never ever saw one.

I might point out our landlord was next door and we had a good relationship. we left the house in very very good order. in 5 years we never placed one single item on the walls. I redecorated the bathroom every year and at the end of the tenancy. Ive asked for copy of tenancy to better understand who to sue. no response. she has told me she will not respond to me again. the landlord has been told not to respond to me either by the agent.

I only asked for a discount of £300 for the windows to cover the total 5 years. no response other than its not a breach of contract. Clearly agents abuse the deposit scheme and the cleaning services they wish to use are their own.

My last email said the deadly silence was not productive in dealing with the matters. no response.

Steveeasy

[jaguarsuk]

thank you for the advice.

Ive tried everything. Ive asked for proof that the property was properly cleaned with receipts before we took the tenancy on. no response.

You're not entitled to them as you didn't pay for those. You want to see the receipts for the cleaning now as it has been claimed from you as a loss, if no cleaning was done, no loss occurred and therefore legally speaking no cause of action to claim from you exists.

Ive asked them to check there inspection records regarding smoke alarms, no response.

Send the agent a Subject Access Request Letter, legally they have a month to comply. Tell them you want everything from the very first minute you ever communicated with them, tenancy agreements, logs or histories of the property maintenance, inspection reports, the lot!

I have been told they terminated the window cleaning service cos I sent the window cleaner away. We never ever saw one.

If it's not recorded in any documents received in the SAR then they can't prove it and if it didn't happen it can't be recorded anywhere.

I might point out our landlord was next door and we had a good relationship. we left the house in very very good order. in 5 years we never placed one single item on the walls. I redecorated the bathroom every year and at the end of the tenancy. Ive asked for copy of tenancy to better understand who to sue. no response. she has told me she will not respond to me again. the landlord has been told not to respond to me either by the agent.

After you have had the SAR and therefore the agreement write to the landlord detailing your issues:

1. your not paying his costs to get the house fit to re-let,
2. you are not paying for fire alarms his agent didn't replace and by that's illegal
3. he was in breach of contract for not providing the service of a window cleaner as detailed in it
4. You want your deposit back in full
5. You want compensating for not having had a window cleaner

Tell him you are giving him the opportunity to resolve the matter amicably and you don't want to have to report the smoke alarms situation due to having had a good relationship with him, but the behaviour of his agent is making this very difficult. Remind him that your contract is with him, not the agent and should you have to pursue anyone in a court proceeding that it would be him. Give him 14 days to respond.

If he does not respond come back here, we'll get a formal letter before action together and threaten him properly with court.

If he does respond come back with what he says and we'll go from there.

I only asked for a discount of £300 for the windows to cover the total 5 years. no response other than its not a breach of contract. Clearly agents abuse the deposit scheme and the cleaning services they wish to use are their own.

My last email said the deadly silence was not productive in dealing with the matters. no response.

Steveeasy

Of course they're not responding, those are the normal expenses a landlord should be covering to re-let the house. They're passing his costs on to you to keep him sweet by deducting your deposit, so that he'll remain their customer to the tune of somewhere in the region of 11% of the rent monthly paid to them.

[steveeasy]

well Ive had a rational response.
I said id settle the cleaning and carpet cleaning if they could show this was done prior to us moving in. I said id settle the carpet damage as it seamed fair. I asked to be compensated for the lack of a window cleaning service for three years. I said we both should compromise to avoid wasting courts time and indeed ours.

the response was.

the window cleaning service they cant do anything about. the agent however has agreed to pay the cleaning and carpet cleaning charges and damage to carpet. they have only deducted the final weeks rent. crazy way of winding something up. the agents apparently covering the costs. So ive got all my deposit back, less 1 weeks rent which I wanted to pay. good outcome but why ?. bet they never were going to provide the cleaning and carpet cleaning just wanted to charge for it.

All a bit suspect but ive now got want I wanted but at the agents expense. seams odd to me. They do get away with murder though.

Thank you for your advice. much appreciated.

Steveeasy

[jaguarsuk]

bet they never were going to provide the cleaning and carpet cleaning just wanted to charge for it.

This is exactly what they were doing, the landlord would have never known anything about it and the agent would have pocketed the deductions.

[mike864]

Great outcome Steveeasy just goes to show that sometimes you should stand up for yourself.

The advice from jaguarsuk was first class, seems to me the agent was simply 'trying it on.'

I was a landlord in a previous life so know the rules, firstly your deposit should have been placed in a government protected scheme specifically for this reason when disputes arise, that's the Law not optional.

Secondly, perhaps for future reference the agent should have completed an in depth inventory [including photos etc] when you moved in and given you a copy to sign as a true and accurate record of the condition of the house or amend/agree as necessary.

Therefore at the end of your tenancy another inventory is completed and you refer to the incoming report for any damage etc. As for general 'wear and tear' that goes with the job of being a landlord, suck it up.

My son has just completed his degree at university and we had three years of disputes with agent/landlords, we referred one to the Deposit scheme and won, the other two we agreed a reduced charge due to my diligence in taking photos before/after & reporting at the start of the tenancy any faults. They insisted that he had to replace a plastic shower curtain would you believe cause it was mouldy - no proper ventilation due to the fact no external window, the shower was in a cupboard, simply a useless extractor fan!

Hard work but if you don't protect yourself you will get fleeced by unscrupulous agent/landlords.

[steveeasy]

something very odd. I got it wrong, they have covered our rent arrears(final week) 260 and the carpet 95. charged me for cleaning and washing carpets, but why cover the rent arrears. very odd. if it does not make sense there is usually something sinister going on. im happy with the balance but why did they cover the amount I was seeking from the landlord. they did not have too, they don't usually give money away.

Steveeasy.

[ostell]

Where was the deposit held? Directly ask the agent.

[mike864]

Clearly something dodgy going on, their actions speak for themselves. But at the end of the day you seem to be happy with the final outcome.

[ostell]

Does not holding the deposit in an approved scheme leave the agent/landlord in a precarious position financially, in that they can be made to pay 3 times the deposit?

[mike864]

Not that I am aware of, it's simply ensuring deposits are held completely independant from the landlords bank account, and in the case of any disputes this was controlled by the approved scheme rather than a 'dodgy' LL.

TBH I thought the government took a liberty interfering in my business, but I was an honourable LL and only ever retained deposits on a few occasions.

Once when a tenant left the apartment in a s%%thole and I used photographic evidence to substantiate my position and contra charged her for cleaning costs.

On two other occasions when tenants just left and their accounts were in arrears, the deposit didn't cover the o/standing balances in any event.

Hence I have got out of the BTL industry, not worth the risk or aggro.

[efpom]

https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-p...t-your-deposit

[ostell]

That's the scheme I was thinking about. Ask the agency which scheme your deposit was in and then you can register a dispute with them. Might cause a few rethnks of the amounts being claimed.