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Debt Assigment; Selling of Accounts

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  • #16
    Did you ask for your quid back ? or has ken spent it ?

    sapphire

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    • #17
      Another string to your bow, if they cashed the cheque or postal order, if they really have not got the CCA, then why cash it (asuming they did).

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      • #18
        Oh, yes. Cashed, and I was thanked very nicely for my initial payment, but would I please consider increasing the amount. Or words to that effect. LOL

        Mind you, as they TRIED to supply a copy of my agreement (which I know for a fact doesn't exist), then surely as they are saying that the CCA doesn't apply to them, they got me a copy of my application form purely as a courtesy?

        And Sapphire, babes. I HAVE asked for my money back. And been ignored. MORE ammunition for the courts. In fact, I wonder if I could go so far as to accuse them of theft????? Would that technically be correct, as they don't have any right to it, and I asked for it back? Hmmm.

        I wonder if the MIB have found this site yet? I think I'll do a google for my favourite DCA and see what pops up.

        OOPS. This thread is starting to become another Cabot thread. Oh well, I just started it to see what direction it would go anyway.
        My Blog
        http://cabotfanclub.wordpress.com

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        • #19
          And Sapphire, babes. I HAVE asked for my money back. And been ignored. MORE ammunition for the courts. In fact, I wonder if I could go so far as to accuse them of theft????? Would that technically be correct, as they don't have any right to it, and I asked for it back? Hmmm.

          Theoretically i would say its theft, although you sent it to them, and i think theft is if they come and take it from you. Wonder if its worth asking someone with a legal background hmmmmmm where would we find one of them ?????? Now that would be funny Ken and WW in handcuffs.

          sapphire
          Last edited by Sapphire; 9th June 2007, 07:56:AM.

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          • #20
            I do beleive, it would be covered in the sale of goods act, as this covers services as well, along with a complaint to trading standards, and if found to be criminal, it may fall under the obtaining money by deception charge, the CCA request is a legal one, they have taken the payment, which means they have to provide the service, knowingly taking payment and not been able to provide the service is deception, So A CCA non compliance letter, a complaint to the ICO, OFT, and trading standards, a court case to remove the info on the CRA, and if found to be criminal a deception charge, christ you gonna be a busy boy.

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            • #21
              I had similar problem with Egg.....I took out a loan....they mis-sold the PPI at the beginning....I complained and got the PPI refunded. This is where it got confusing....lol
              The original loan was for £6000 and the PPI was £1132, so the original agreement was for £7132......only says this figure!
              When they refunded the money they listed the loan as settled with CRA's and started a new loan listing with CRA's...for the outstanding balance!
              But they never got me to sign a new agreement!
              They are trying to enforce the original agreement......but Now the amount borrowed is wrong!
              The original says I borrowed £7132....and it should be £6000.....can they enforce it??
              And if they processed my data and gave the CRA's information stating the loan as settled.....can they still enforce it??
              If they did enforce it they would be admitting knowingly processing false data??
              Can I use my credit reports to prove the debt is settled in court??
              Also they committed offence under a CCA request.....so in discussions with them and need as much leverage as possible.....any advice greatly appreciated....
              Just taken me a year to get 'Moorcroft' off my back....Nice lady at EGG recalled it and stated she has 'Serious Concerns' over how it has all been handled for 4 years.....she is investigating at the moment...
              But still more than likely will require my taking action against them.....I am not counting chickens yet....lol
              Russ
              Last edited by Nattie; 27th November 2007, 18:14:PM. Reason: additional information added

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              • #22
                Basically no they cannot enforce it, as long as you have proof, and if you do, get in touch with the CRA's, prove your case, they would have to amend the total, if a CCJ then they would have to fax the details to Registery trust. you could also try a CCA request non complianence.
                Last edited by strangewayofsavin; 17th June 2007, 20:58:PM.

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                • #23
                  Well, they do seem to be reading the forums. I have had a cheque back from Cabot for £1. Which I shall not be cashing as they DO have the duties of the original creditor as far as I'm concerned. And as they accepted and cashed it in full knowledge of the reason I sent it in the first place, that makes them guilty of deceit at the very least, IMHO, as they took it as payment for a service they deny categorically they are obliged to carry out. I really could not have made it any plainer in my CCA request that it was ONLY to be used in respect of said request, so they can't say, Oh, we thought it was an initial payment towards a debt.

                  My advice to anyone getting the "no duties under the CCA" nonsense is, write to them and demand your quid back. ANY DCA that sputs this guff. But DON'T under any circumstances, cash the payment that they might send you. File it away with the rest of your docs.
                  Last edited by Nattie; 27th November 2007, 18:14:PM.
                  My Blog
                  http://cabotfanclub.wordpress.com

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    OK, I seem to have become fixated on this Law of Property Act again, and whether or not "the rights but not the duties" are assigned to Cabot.

                    OK, it appears that we can seperate this between Scottish Law and English Law.

                    Under English law, I have found this...

                    The position in English law seems to be nearer the continental position, whereby only the rights under a contract can be assigned, rather than the obligations – and that only because of the Law of Property Act 1925 overturned the common law rule against assignment. Now, however, the rights under a commercial contract are readily assignable. A good reference work for assignment in English law is the 29th ed of Chitty on Contracts (2004), chapter 19, esp paras 19-076 – 19-079. You may also wish to look at Goode on Commercial Law.
                    However, the fact remains that, the CCA overns consumer law. So even if Cabot deny that they have the duties of the original creditor, the fact remains that, No Agreement means No Enforcement.

                    As to Scots law, I see this in the same article...

                    One of the points that caused considerable discussion in last Tuesday’s seminar was the assignation of contracts: specifically the idea that a contract was freely assignable unless a clause prohibited it or required the written consent of the other party.

                    I would like to clarify one point about assignation which was not clearly distinguished or discussed in class. When assigning a contract, we have to distinguish between the benefit of the contract (e.g. the right to be paid £100 under a contract) and the burden of the contract (e.g. the duty to provide certain services).

                    In Scots law, it is clear that the benefit of the contact can be freely assigned without the consent of the other contracting party, unless either (i) there is an element of delectus personae or (ii) the contract provides otherwise, e.g. in a “no assignation” clause. See in particular McBryde (2nd ed), chapter 12, esp paras 12-02; 12-39; and 12-49.

                    McBryde then goes on to consider whether the burden of a contract, i.e. the obligations to be performed, can be assigned. The burden may be assigned with the consent of the creditor, or it may be transferred under novation (which involves the creation of an entirely new contract). However, McBryde believes that the obligations under a contract may in some circumstances be assigned without the consent of the other contracting party. This is more likely to be the case where you also assign the rights under the contract, i.e. you assign a bundle of rights and obligations, for example the assignation of a lease.
                    But, it is ENGLISH law that applies between the two parties (generally), eg Barclaycard and Cabot, when considering the assignment of a debt. All well and good. But as the Law of Property Act 1925 ONLY applies in England and Wales, (Section 209. - (3) This Act extends to England and Wales only.) I am of the opinion that if Cabot were to rely on that act in a Scottish court, it would be unenforcable, irrespective of whether or not a properly executed agreement was produced. This, because it is my opinion that an equitable assignment has no basis in Scots law.

                    Results within legislation - Statute Law Database
                    Last edited by Nattie; 27th November 2007, 18:15:PM.
                    My Blog
                    http://cabotfanclub.wordpress.com

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Hi Luggs, I think you may be reading too much into the property act, they have bought the debt from Barclays, so the debt is their property, the fact that they are claiming you now owe them money, they have to prove it, and if they have not got the original Consumer credit agreement or an exceptable copy, then there is no debt, and as you have sent them a CCA request which they have not, or cannot produce, then they cannot enforce the debt, take the next step in the plan and take them to court for non compliance. And let a Judge tell them.
                      Go kick butt.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I've kicked off their official complaints procedure. I need to let that take its course.

                        THEN I can drag them into court. If they don't try to get me there first.
                        My Blog
                        http://cabotfanclub.wordpress.com

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Love the thread really informative can you look at a post on the Consumer Credit act I have just posted

                          Help needed with this one...
                          by hellhasnofury please

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Debt Assigment; Selling of Accounts

                            I appreciate that this is an old thread, but this is something I've been trying to find information on for ages.

                            ie if a debt is sold on, where does the law stand in the purchaser enforcing it?

                            I'm coming to the conclusion that if you default on any debt, the lender will quickly pass the debt on rather than pursue it themselves and if you keep denying the debt with these other companys you could eventually get to 6 years and statue barred so no debt!
                            ------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
                            Just found this. I know it relates to America, but I think it's rather a valid point:

                            These debts are generally fraught with lots of problems. If you are contemplating buying debt or if you are being sued on a credit card debt from someone other than the original creditor, read on...I am about to save you a lot of grief. Here are the usual problems with purchased debt:

                            Our primary difference with Gary's post is that in Alabama the debt buyers sometimes do produce the original documents between the creditor and the consumer. This may show that you "owe" the debt but the debt buyers have not and will not, in our experience, produce the purchase agreement where the debt buyer supposedly bought the debt from the creditor. This is the "prove they own the debt" argument we made in this post. When a debt buyer dismisses the case with prejudice, you have the option in Alabama to potentially sue the debt buyer for not correcting your credit report as we posted here.
                            Last edited by Wire01; 18th January 2010, 16:00:PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Debt Assigment; Selling of Accounts

                              Wire01, Legalbeagles is a UK site dealing with UK law.
                              Here's how it happens in England: Debt purchasing and assignment - Legal Beagles

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