Debt Assigment; Selling of Accounts

[LuggerBugs]

I thought I'd start the ball rolling with this one, as it's not strictly a Cabot proble, but does relate to the way they operate.

When a debt is sold (assigned), under what law does it pass from original creditor to debt purchsing agency? And as any alleged original agreement would have been regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, whatgives the new owner of any assigned account the right to say the CCA does not apply to them?

Does that mean they are right, and have been assigned only the rights to the account?

And if so, does that mean the ORIGINAL CREDITOR is still liable for all duties?

Discuss?

[iancognito]

Well someone has to be responsible, otherwise this would be a fantastic way of circumnavigating the CCA and everyone would be at it!.....oh, hang on a minute, they already are!!

I would assume that no matter who owns the debt, only your original credit agreement applies and that is with the original creditor?

Perhaps if we could prove they can sell the debt but not the responsibility, they would be less eager to do so?

Please note the above are tentative questions, not answers!!!

[LuggerBugs]

I really would love to see this sorted out in court. Drag both original creditor and new owner in and say, just sort it out between you, will you?

[strangewayofsavin]

If A DCA buys a debt, then it is like buying a company, they get lock stock, They take over from the creditor warts and all, Some DCA's specialise in buying debt from larger companies (when the limitations act is approaching, or passed, or the larger company have too many to deal with and would cost far more than the debt is worth to chase as individual claims, or because of bankruptcy), So this company for example will by £75,000 of debt's for approx £30,000 (seeing as most of the outstanding amount is interest, and the larger company has basically made its money), they will then proceed to try to reclaim the debt, even if they have no legal right to. They will phone a VICTIM and bully them, they will also say, Mr Jones, we have bought the debt from ABC loans, there is an outstanding amount of £6,000, we understand it is too much to pay in 1 sum, so we will set up monthly payments, once set up, it is debt acknowledgement, or they will say Mr Jones you owe £6,000, we will except £3,500 as a one off final payment, anything as long as they profit. The reason why every debt is answerble to the CCA request, is to stop fraud in one form or another, If they tell you they are not bound by it its rubbish. Anybody that has a DCA phone them, Do not acknowledge the debt, do not talk to them on the phone, insist every communication is done in writting. If they continue to phone, make a complaint to the OFT for harrassment, if they write, do a CCA request, and ask for a statement of account with a breakdown of how they arrive at that figure. if they fail to provide, then there is no debt.

[LuggerBugs]

So, is there any actual case documentation to say that they must accept the rights AND the duties of the original creditor? Is there any way of proving that you KNOW they are talking bollix when they, for instance, refuse to provide a copy of your original agreement when you legitimitely request it?

[Sapphire]

Very good argument guys, I for one am now off on a search for above mentioned documentation etc.

sapphire

[strangewayofsavin]

Hi the consumer credit act 1974 S.77. is the non compliance letter mentioned in the consumer credit act forum.

[LuggerBugs]

Ah, yes. But the beggers say the CCA doesn't apply to them, ergo the section you (and every one else) mentions is irrelevant. Supposedly.

It would appear that certain "rogue" companies are under the impression that they can hide behind under the Law of Property Act 1925 umbrella.

I know this is largely dotting the i's and crossing the t's, as agreement or no from them doesn't detract from the fact that it IS the CCA 1974 that applies to any accounts they purchase, so the consumer is still protected. But it would be very nice to have another nail to bang into their coffin. And if no agreement IS forthcoming, of course the consumer has no idea where he stands, as he can't be sure exactly what, or indeed if, the agreement was.

I do seem to remember though, that somene tried to take their original creditor to court to recover unlawful penalties, and was told by the judge to take it up with the new owner of the account.

Several of us have gone round and round in circles with this question, and it's nice to get some fresh opinions.

[strangewayofsavin]

If you read statute law, somewhere in every law, it states that that law is in force as long as it does not contravene any other statute law, there is nobody in this land can argue with the fact, that if you do not have the proof, then you are in a canoe trying to battle the rapids without a paddle so to speak.

[strangewayofsavin]

What we do know is the fact that if you dispute a debt, then they have to take you to court to get a judgement, and in accordance with the Data protection act, they cannot put a default against your name until the dispute is resolved reguardless of the CCA 1974. I would think we need a 2 pronged stratergy, firstly Dispute the debt, If they enter a default we will have to go down the route of action via County Court to remove it, and claim damages, or let them take you to court and ask the judge for disclosure of the CCA document as per your request. Or take them to court for non compliance. Remember the person you talk to on the phone is a puppet, being trained to say what their upline has taught them, the only way for us to resolve this issue is to test it in court. I for one, would donate towards the costs, as I am sure others would be.

[LuggerBugs]

It's what I'm hoping will happen in my case. If Cabot think they have a leg to stand on, or if they think I'm bluffing, they might just save me the bother of having to take them to court. It really does depend on their response to my last email. It's likely to be a very long time before I'm able to drag them into a court though, as I have only just formally invoked their complaints procedure, so I can try the reasonable route of reporting them to the FOS.

As regards any default, they SAY they are merely continuing the reporting of an existing default. Not bad for a company that professes not to hold or process any personal data. Another bone of contention.

But I'm a patient man. Well, no I'm not really. But in this case, I think it will just be so worth the wait.

[iancognito]

On your credit report, who is listed as the creditor?

[LuggerBugs]

Why, my good friends, Cabot Financial (UK) Limited of course.

Now, as Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited say that it is only THEY who process data, having had it passed straight to them from Barclaycard as my last letter confirms (despite this being unlawful, as I understand it), I'd love to know how Cabot Financial (UK) Limited have any adverse credit record details to pass to the CRA's.

As Paul Daniels says, Now that's magic.

[strangewayofsavin]

So if they have taken the debt over, and do not have the CCA agreement, then how can they put the information on a credit reference agency?
As we already know, the reason creditors can put this info to experian etc, is because we agreed to it in the original agreement, so by placing this info with a CRA, they basically admit to the fact they have the CCA, or are acting illegally with your personal details, now that is worth mentioning to court

[LuggerBugs]

SHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

By the way, if the CCA REALLY doesn't apply to them, why haven't I had my quid back???????????????????