Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

[paddyhaig]

I contracted a law firm to handle my interests in a probate situation. They were given POA. However I became rather disappointed in their service as they exhibited dishonesty and acted outside of my instructions on a number of occasions. Due to these factors an uncomfortable dialog developed and I informed them that I was looking for a second opinion regarding their actions. They interpreted this as me relinquishing instructions. Where as what I really needed was an independent second opinion. They were paid as they had been given access to my monies so they took what they believed was owed to them. Unfortunately for me. I am tied in with them as they signed my letters of Administration documents so remedying this situation is going to cost me a significant amount of money. Thoughts and suggestions pertaining to this situation will be gladly received. I'm happy to supply more details as requested.

[des8]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

"exhibited dishonesty"............... unusual turn of phrase. Did they actually behave dishonestly, or just appear to behave dishonestly
"acted outside of my instructions".............. was this contrary to your express instructions? was it to your detriment? was it just beyond your instructions?

If your dialogue ended with you stating your concerns were leading to you seeking a second opinion, they might be correct in assuming your relationship was so broken that they could not continue to act on your behalf. If a solicitor/client relationship no longer is founded on trust & confidence, this could be considered sufficient reason for them to terminate the contract. Solicitors however cannot just terminate a contract

However they are intimating that you have effectively cancelled the relationship.
You could advise them that they have misinterpreted the situation, you have not withdrawn your instructions but were solely advising them that you were unhappy with the way they interpreted your instructions. You anticipate they will continue to act in accordance with your instructions.

On the one hand you seem to regret that you are bound to them, but on the other hand you regret the additional costs in breaking free.
What would be a satisfactory resolution for you?

[paddyhaig]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

Exhibiting dishonesty. Here's the scenario. My solicitor 'ASKED' my permission to go and 'CHECK' on the properties. The journey to and from the properties shouldn't take more than 40 minutes total. I know the trip well as I worked close to the Law practice once and would give myself 20 minutes to get to work. This if checked by Google is a 17 minute journey. It seems he decided to take the route more fraught with potential hazards. Instead of the motorway that practically takes you to the front door.
However I'm not going to split hairs. Even thought I'm charged full rate for travel time. (This I accepted) Checking the properties I was given to believe is giving them the once over and establishing their general condition. Not getting into a protracted conversation with my brother about unrelated aspects of his life like his former career as a fork lift truck driver.
He later called this 'feeling him out', this is the beginning of the upset. I conveyed I was upset and my solicitor naturally he got quite indignant about it. Why wouldn't he? After some costly inquiry I found he had spent 170 minutes on a task that shouldn't of taken more than 90 minutes tops.
Time passed, my solicitor informed me that he was going to send me a report on the following Monday, that he was going to generate over the weekend. Monday passed, then another, then another and so on. Several weeks passed and nothing. Then he got in touch with me about some quite unrelated query. I asked him about the report. He said he had decided not to send me one so as to save me money.
Time went on. Once again he informed me that he was going to send me a report, once again the report was not forth coming. Not until a long time later did he send me a report that I have to say seem to amount to very little. So I got the impression that he was prone to making claims and not following through with them. Whether this was intentional? A wind up? Who knows. I really should write a book in respects to the disgraceful behaviour. This above is just a few of the poor service examples I experienced. Why do I use the term dishonest? If I told you I would come by your house and fix your plumbing on a couple of occasions and didn't show up? You'd probably be a little sore. In the States they use the expression 'he was blowing smoke', in the UK 'Taking the urine', or words to that effect. I tried and tried to trust him. In regards to Instructions, he attempted to visit the properties again, although he apparently aborted his mission due to an obstacle. A bridge was raised blocking his route. The long route more fraught with hazards. However this I found out, initially inadvertently. From correspondence I was later made privy too. Not directly from him, but I guess he knew that I knew and was quick to explain. The thing is... He had previously asked my permission to take on any of the larger tasks. Now after my complaining it seemed like he was just sneaking behind my back. Again, as you can imagine, the relationship didn't get any better. I sent a complaint that he probably should of forwarded to his complaints department. But he didn't. Then there's the bank scenario. I had to stop my expensive dialog with him and speak with someone else. I was drained. Of course the relationship was in tatters after the above and a few more matters of questionable service.

[des8]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

"I sent a complaint that he probably should of forwarded to his complaints department"

Why didn't/don't you send details directly to the complaints department? This is your first step.
If you do, be a little circumspect before accusing him of "dishonesty".
He may have "acted beyond his remit" or "not in your best interests" or even "incompetently" but not "dishonestly". There are libel laws and IMO you have not demonstrated "dishonesty"

[paddyhaig]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

I wanted to keep it informal initially expressing my issues just to him. I didn't actually use the word dishonesty with him or the firm (I also haven't mentioned the firms name ). I expressed my concern over what I termed at the time, as a lack of fiduciary duty. Although if a taxi driver took me the more arduous and time consuming route I'd probably call him a crook, or a contractor kept telling me he was going to show up and do some work then I'd probably accuse them of joshing me (I can think of other words, however their not meant for polite company). Eventually I did send complaints to their 'official complaints department', twice, a single person who sent me back an automated reply (She was out the office for the week) suggesting I call the office of the person I had the issue with. In a nutshell 'The run around'. The formal complaint letter to the complaints department was not acknowledged until much later on. It was like it had become some twisted game with them. Like they were winding me up and trying to show me who was the boss. The more I complained the worse their service got. The more money they acquired from the ensuing dialog.

[des8]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

Have they advised you on the procedure for complaining to the Legal Ombudsman?
You may find this website useful, if you haven't already seen it: http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/prob...solicitor.page

[paddyhaig]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

Well the Legal Ombudsman and SRA route seems to be pretty arduous in itself. I stumbled across an individual that had apparently used the LO and the SRA and he in a brief email exchange informed me that they were not worth the effort. He suggested getting a decent Barrister. However I decided to check things out for myself and went through the filing of a complaint with the LO. The prerequisite being I had already complained to the Solicitors. Which I had done technically and not received a reply. I decided to feel out the Ombudsman and see how they worked. They supply a form in which you have to lay out your complaint. Then they open up a dialog with you claiming they are neutral and unbiased. They supply the Solicitors with your complaint in full and allow them to defend themselves. The LO investigator doesn't make you privvy to their defence, but does make a judgement based on the information given. This to me is not what I would call fair and balanced. The solicitors get my information and craft an excuse. I am not made privy to that excuse to cross examine. Apparently after taking this coarse of action you give up your right to any further litigation with the Solicitors in question. Well I tried some of the minor issues with the LO and was quite disappointed in how they functioned. They allowed my Solicitors to give them the run around by not replying in the given time frame. The LO extended their receiving of a reply period without further action. Letting the Solicitors make a mockery out of them also. My solicitors seemed to have no respect for anyone including the Legal Ombudsman. On seeing this and the Legal Ombudsman finding them guilty of some minor service infringement offered me £150. If I took the money, I wouldn't be able to pursue the solicitors any other way or at least trying too would be severely hampered. I declined the money and the LO case was dropped. You have to wonder who the LO works for? When I asked them who payed them they supplied some well crafted legal gobledy gook that made absolutely no sense. Who pays the Legal Ombudsman? A rather successful solicitor in the USA I have used the service of and became friends with said to me "Always follow the money, if you want to get to the root of things." I should point out that all I asked the LO for in the way of compensation if they were to find issue was to arbitrate and monitor all future actions and dialog made by my solicitors (I just needed a witness) I wasn't looking for money. However I was inforned that they could not do this for me.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

I'd just like to add that it's been really good for me to talk this out. Instead of bottling it up, or being corralled into signing a legal contract for advice, just getting a second opinion has been fantastic. Thank you everyone that has helped me see reason. Because I feel like the whole matter has been driving me crazy and it certainly has been taxing in more ways than one. You hire a solicitors, you think you've left things in good hands until they start with their monkey business. :-( I should point out however the matter however still seems to be far from over.

[des8]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

If you are unhappy with the decision of the ombudsman you are entitled to request an internal review, stating the reason for your disagreement with the decision.

If you feel the decision is wrong in law due to bias or unfairness then the option open to you is an application before the courts of judicial review,

I think you will find that all ombudsmen services in the UK are funded by levies on the individual concerns, or (as in the case of solicitors) their regulatory bodies. On the face of it an American might question their independence, but IMO that is a facile comment and shows a lack of understanding of their regulatory function.

You state "Apparently after taking this coarse of action you give up your right to any further litigation with the Solicitors in question."
This is not true!!
If both parties agree with the ombudsman's decision, then no further legal action can be taken and the decision is binding on both parties.
If the complainant disagrees with the ombudsman's decision then the legal rights of both parties are unaffected.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

I don't believe the Legal Ombudsmans investigator offered anything resembling an internal review they did at my request give me their supervisors contact information. However the supervisor I was informed by the same was away on holiday. Nor was a judicial review mentioned. No doubt in the small print somewhere on their website somewhere. I'm a layman and artisan, not with the same academic and mental opacity *joke* of those who have invested in the law. But it seems like you need a lawyer to deal with the LO.

'funded by levies on the individual concerns, or (as in the case of solicitors) their regulatory bodies'.

So they're funded by the SRA? Who taxes (Shakes down) solicitors as a kind of insurance and buffer program against being sued and the courts being bogged down with litigation? Maybe It's a win win situation for the courts and solicitors that avoids contentious situations that demean the legal community? Everyone who is anyone in the field of law is signed up for SRA insurance that pertains to a certain quality of service but... The Legal Ombudsman being an offshoot to take care of the little stuff. Maybe? Levies on the individual concerns translates to the Legal Ombudsman asking for money from the SRA that as I said promises credibility and a buffer against fierce legal battles grinding the system down. Maybe I've just explained their regulatory function :-) Nothing overly facile and complex there. Just a plain old shake down.

Maybe I should of said, taking this coarse of action to conclusion negates ones ability to take any further legal actions against the solicitors in question. As it was, I filed my complaint with the LO and my solicitors went ahead running up my costs and expenses outside of my instructions.
He was not given permission to go and make a second visit to the properties supposedly allowing access to the appraiser. He had been requesting my permission prior for tasks of this scale, but now he was sneaking behind my back it would seem. If he had asked me I would of suggested he have them visit his office and pick up the keys or make an arraignment with my brother who he apparently had been in contact with in order to view the flat.

Look I really do appreciate your input Des8. I mean I am really really grateful. And maybe your convincing me I should try the LO again. I didn't go through with my entire complaint last time as I was just feeling them out and wasn't overly enamoured with their method of operation. I am in the process of writing a brief email to another solicitor that I might hire for the purpose of looking after my interests. Is it possible I might share this email with you privately for your thoughts? We are both VIP members so apparently this can be done. It explains my predicament in a little more detail however the are the names of those involved (That I could edit out for your possible copy). I just need to know if it's acceptable. If you wanted furniture building, a new kitchen or bathroom. I could take care of that for you. But litigious thinking is not my strong suit. :-) That's why I'm here.

[des8]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

you're even more of a cynic than many of us on this site:tinysmile_twink_t2:

Unfortunately the system we have, is the system we have, and most would agree it's far from perfect (especially when it doesn't deliver what we want!)

I know that you feel sore about your brother's action, and are looking at a 40% reduction in the value of a property (your share of which equates to about £8000).
If you are about to employ another solicitor do watch the costs. As you have undoubtedly found out solicitors aren't cheap, and they don't necessarily keep the client informed of the running costs total. It might be worth instructing your solicitor there is a maximum which they cannot exceed.

If you want you can PM me any confidential info you don't want publicized.
This is not encouraged by the forum, as a protection to both parties and as a benefit to the poster who may obtain wider advice on open forum, and as a benefit to others who (with similar problems) may read the thread. However the PM facility is there,

[paddyhaig]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

I do very much appreciate that Des8. I just have to figure out now how I PM someone through the Legalbeagal site.
*Exploring* :-) I do also understand what your saying about making my posts public. But the is some sensitive information, I'd rather not make too public.

[paddyhaig]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

Tried to send Des8 a PM and it looks like I sent it to myself twice. If Des8 knows how to send PM's please can you send one to me. Then I will hopefully be able to reply to the PM including the more private information pertaining to my difficulties that I would rather not share too publicly for fear of slander and liable suits.

[Kati]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

Tried to send Des8 a PM and it looks like I sent it to myself twice. If Des8 knows how to send PM's please can you send one to me. Then I will hopefully be able to reply to the PM including the more private information pertaining to my difficulties that I would rather not share too publicly for fear of slander and liable suits.

click on [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION]'s name and a box appears:



click "private message" it takes you to a new screen:


type your message and send

[des8]

Re: Contracted solicitors, I just needed a second opinion

Thanks for sorting out, Kati.
I've now received PM and will respond later.
Family arrived and now going out.