BuyMobilephones.net letter of demand for £360 for ending contract early

[caverncity]

Hello,
By searching google I can see this has happened to a number of people
however there hasnt been any conclusion so here is my problem and not sure where I stand.

Out of the blue I received a shocking & demanding email from buymobiles asking me for £360
or return of goods within 7 days as, as they say I have been disconnected from T-Mobile.

In April 2013 I followed a link from HDUK for a Nexus 4 at £15.50 a month with a free phone.
I took up this offer and received said phone and paid T-Mobile every month


however on the 18 month due to the small amount of minutes I had I decided to buy out my contract
by ringing up T-Mobile and asking for a pac code which in turn gave me a final bill of approx £66.

I then checked using checkmend if T-Mobile had a hold on the phone and it came up clear
so sold it and used the money to pay off my bill.
I then took out another contract with EE.

Now I have received this email and am very annoyed about it,
one
that the phone was advertised as free,


two
that the phone was £279 new at the time and after 18 months is no where near worth £360


three
that I dont know where I stand.


Also they state I have recently been disconnected and have not fullfilled the minimum 2 years.
But i have as I bought out the remaining months and T-Mobile said thats all I need to pay.

I have just checked the terms on their site and the only one was EE and that states after six months the phone is mine to keep.



I am not sure what the terms stated at the time of purchase or if I actually read them.
I have finished off contracts before and have not had this happen.

The email is in my next post.
I understand these are not terms so not sure where they have come from and why they are paragraphed the way they are.

Seems to me this company are bullies and have found a way of demanding extra money from customers
when they upgrade etc early using another company or provider.

Using "waybackmachine" I have found the original offer give or take a day
and it clearly says phone FREE as does their terms however it seems the phone isnt free its on loan.

Buymobiles have informed me there are two contracts one for the network and one for the phone.

I emailed them back and I have just received this reply.
I asked for a breakdown of their loss in me ending the contract early, I didnt get one.
I told them i bought the contract out so their argument is with T-Mobile not me.
I asked for a hard copy of the terms of the sale which they sent but they are different to the ones i have but they could easily be changed in their favour if they think I dont have them.

"In regard to this the payment for the goods or return of the goods has been requested
as the network have advised us that the contract has been disconnected during the minimum term.

When you placed the order you entered into two contracts,
one for the airtime which is with the network provider
and one contract for the goods which is with ourselves.


A disconnection of any kind within the minimum term is a breach of this agreement,
if you have ended the contract early this is still classed as a disconnection .

We require the debt to be paid to ourselves or the goods returned,
the amount due is the handset cost + VAT.
I have attached the Terms and Conditions which is your agreement . "

No where did it say I was entering into two contracts.
If they are saying the phone was part of a loan agreement
then law states they must send me an agreement to which I sign
which includes the terms. This didnt happen.

Annoyingly I was going to keep the phone and tariff as a spare but wanted my gold number to use on my new contract.
I didnt even save much ending it approx £25. Kicking myself! dont know which way to turn now.

I am still unsure if they are right


I have as recommended by CAB emailed a letter with an offer for the average cost of the phone in todays market
or a replacement phone but I will need to buy another phone.


I have not heard anything back in relation to my offer but received via email a new letter of demand instead this time headed A1 Comms, the other was headed buymobiles.

Not sure if its being ignored so will have to post it recorded instead, sending Monday.

I have found the Sales of Goods Act 1982 which refers to supplying goods free during a contract
but as a layman its a bit hard to understand most or all of it or if any applies to this and if in my favour or not.

If they choose to ignore my offer then that wont go in their favour and if it does got to a debt recovery
I shall be sending a Cease & Desist letter for the amount they are asking.


Not sure if I send it to Buymobiles or wait till it goes to debt recovery which I dont want it to
but if they abide by the C&D letter then at least a judge will see the debt and may get my day in court.

It has been brought to my attention by A1 that i had two contracts this wasnt pointed out
and no way was I aware of it.

If this is the case of two contracts one being with T-Mobile and one with A1
then the phone was surely lent to me for a period of 24 months and in my eyes that is a loan agreement
to which I never signed nor did I receive by post a hard copy of an agreement to sign.


Unless I am wrong thinking it is a loan? It would be interesting to know if "a company" should have a CCA when offering free goods subject to a contract but add in their T&C a clawback value for said goods if the contract is broken. Or even if its subject to a higher purchase agreement.

I might be clutching here!

thanks for any forthcoming advice and will reply asap.

[caverncity]

Re: BuyMobilephones.net letter of demand for £360 for ending contract early

LETTER OF DEMAND PURSUANT TO THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES 1998 AND ANNEX B OF THE PRACTICE DIRECTION-PRE ACTION CONDUCT

Dear

We have been notified by your service provider T-Mobile that you have recently been disconnected. As a result, in accordance with our terms and conditions, which are fully particularised below, we now require you to pay to us the following sum, for the products provided;

Amount due £360.00 or Return of Goods

Return Address;
A1comms Ltd (F.A.O The Collections Team)
Contract House
Turnpike Business Park
Alfreton
DE55 7AD

Alternatively the goods supplied can be returned (to the address at the top of this letter) but must be in good condition and in full working order. You have 7 days from the date of this letter to return the products failing which we will proceed to recover from you the cost of the products as particularised below. Assuming you fail to return the products in good working order within 7 days, it is our policy to provide you with one opportunity to settle the debt prior to legal action being commenced. This letter is therefore being sent pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules 1998 and in accordance with Annex B of the Practice Direction – Pre Action Conduct. We should highlight that should you fail to pay pursuant to this letter within 7 days (assuming you haven’t returned the products in good working order) we will either commence court proceedings or alternatively we may pass the debt on to a third party which will then in turn commence a court claim to recover the monies due. This letter should therefore be taken seriously.


1 The Debt
1.1 As stated you owe a total of £360.00, to us. Please note should payment not be forthcoming and a claim is issued we reserve the right to claim statutory interest at a rate of 8% in respect of each of the amounts from their due dates following our payment requests, to the date of actual payment.
2 The Claim
2.1 In anticipation of forthcoming legal proceedings (assuming the goods are not returned or paid for pursuant to the terms and conditions below), we will summarise our position below.
2.2 You entered into a contract with us when ordering the phone and tariff from our website. After you placed an order you will have received an email from us acknowledging that we have received your order. Once Goods were dispatched to you, having passed security checks, you will have been sent by email a Dispatch Confirmation. This is when the contract was formed between you and A1 Comms Limited.
2.3 By proceeding to confirm the order on our website you indicated agreement to our terms and conditions, a copy of which you are directed to on the website.
2.4 These terms and conditions note the following:
2.4.1 “By ordering goods you agree to be bound by these Terms...”
2.4.2 “If you purchase a Contract phone or Sim-Only we will often charge you less for those Goods than the amount we would charge if you were buying them without a Network Contract (the Retail Price). You acknowledge that us providing those Goods to you for free or at less than the Retail Price is conditional on you not downgrading your Tariff or ending your Network Contract during the Minimum Term.”
2.4.3 “Except in circumstances where you cancel your Contract and your Network Contract in accordance with clause 9, if your Network Contract ends before the end of the Minimum Term or if you downgrade your Tariff then:
2.4.4 Clause 4.6.1 - Within 7 days of the downgrade or end of the Network Contract you must:
(a) Pay us the difference between the price you paid for the Contract Phone or Sim-Only and a sum equal to the Retail Price including VAT, plus the market value of the Promotional Products plus VAT; or
(b) If the contract Phone or Sim-Only and any associated Promotional Products are in good working order, fully functioning and intact you can return them to us”;
2.4.5 Clause 4.7 – “If you do not make the payment required under clause 4.6.1 then we will be entitled to take back the Contract Phone or Sim-Only and any associated Promotional Products and you must return them to us as soon as we ask you to do so”.
2.4.6 Clause 4.8 – “If you fail to return any Contract Phone and Promotional Products under clause 4.7 we will commence proceedings to recover the cost of the Goods from you including but not exclusive to invoicing you for the sums owed”.
2.5 As a result, you are clearly in breach of the contract. As stated, on the basis that the goods are not returned within 7 days pursuant to the terms and conditions, the total amount due currently amounts to £360.00. Please note should proceedings be issued interest can be claimed at the statutory rate of 8% from the date each amount fell due to the date at which settlement is received.
2.6 Payment of the Goods can be made using debit or credit card by contacting us on the telephone number 0345 413 6212.
3 The Next Steps
3.1 Should the goods not be returned nor payment made in full, we will be left with no other option than to commence legal proceedings in 14 days or pass the debt to a third party to recover payment. In the event that proceedings are issued, we or the third party will seek to statutory interest, and seek to recover any legal costs of bringing the claim in addition to the balance discussed above. Any legal proceedings could result in a county court judgment being entered against you which if unpaid, could impact on your ability to raise credit in the future.
3.2 Finally, we are obliged to advise you that you may wish to take independent legal advice in respect of this matter. Free independent advice and assistance can be obtained from several organisations. If you require any advice on this please contact us for details.

We look forward to hearing from you as a matter of urgency.

Yours sincerely
Collections Team

[Amethyst]

Re: BuyMobilephones.net letter of demand for £360 for ending contract early

Where do A1comms come into it ? http://www.a1comms.co.uk/

Phone contracts aren't really my area so just by way of some background info and example ( their website is a pain in the ass and geared so its really hard to find and read terms!)

Anyway this is the finance 'terms' from buymobilephones.net

How to Apply

Add a product available on Finance to your shopping basket and click to checkout. You will be redirected to the Pay4Later website to complete your order.

Complete your details in their 100% secure checkout and they will assess your credit application.

Qualifying For Credit

Pay4Later will conduct the necessary credit checks and references in order to confirm your eligibility for the credit application. You will need a good credit history with no history of late repayments or payment issues in order to qualify.

Is a Deposit Required?

Yes. A 10% deposit will be taken at the time you order.

How Are My Monthly Payments Made?

Your monthly repayments will be taken via direct debit from your chosen bank account.

Which Products are Available to Buy On Finance?

We have a selection of products from our gift range available to purchase independently on Finance, providing you with a great way to get the latest technology and gadgets for a low monthly cost without an associated mobile phone contract.

What Length Of Repayment Is Available

Loans are 24 months.

Can I Pay Off My Loan Early?

Yes, please contact Close Brothers Retail Finance directly 0844 880 6541 in order to make additional payments. Please note that interest rates will be adjusted accordingly.

Standard Information and Regulatory Status of P4L and Close:
Consumer Credit Service is provided by Pay4Later in association with Close Brothers Retail Finance. Pay4Later is licensed by Financial Conduct Authority (Consumer Credit Licence: 0616240). For more information please refer to our frequently asked questions or visit www.pay4later.com.

Close Brothers Retail Finance is a trading name of Close Brothers Limited. Close Brothers Limited is authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and Prudential Regulation Authority – firm reference number 124750. For more information please visit www.closebrothersretailfinance.co.uk.

Representative example of credit:

Total Product Value - £300
Less deposit (10%) - £270
Amount of credit - £270
Payable by 24 monthly instalments of - £11.25
Other Charges - £0
Total amount payable APR typical 0% - £300

and attached the current EE terms from the buymobilephones.net website

[caverncity]

Re: BuyMobilephones.net letter of demand for £360 for ending contract early

Hi a1 comms own buymobiles. I checked if they had a cca and it shows as pending so they maybe using the company you have highlighted to process the credit. The terms are for t-mobile which state the phone is mine after six months but buymobiles say the phone was supplied by them even though t-mobile have paid the commission for said phone, so their terms which are on their website come into it. They are saying I entered into two contracts. Thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: BuyMobilephones.net letter of demand for £360 for ending contract early

In that case you want copies of both contracts.

Their website is terrible. You have no idea who you are actually dealing with - pay4later, close brothers, buymobiles.net , a1 comms .... and so on and so forth it appears...

[caverncity]

Re: BuyMobilephones.net letter of demand for £360 for ending contract early

I will ask for that but was informed they dont need to show it as when confirming the purchase i agreed to the two contracts. One being the tariff the other the phone. Not sure on the legality of that hence why i am stuck. I was also informed it is normal practice and accepted that no contract needs to be shown on mobile contracts. Cab was no help nor a free legal help line.

I am away from my pc now so will reply later. Thanks

[caverncity]

Re: BuyMobilephones.net letter of demand for £360 for ending contract early

Well sent letter of dispute asking to negotiate to which according to royal mail they have received today. I also received today a letter through the post exactly the same as the email asking for said debt to be paid, this time though it was broken down as £300 plus £60 VAT for the phone, a phone that is two years old discontinued and was only £279 on release and later reduced to £199.
Earlier on I also received via email from A1 Comms a standard Final demand with no reference to my letter or previous email I sent asking to negotiate.

[caverncity]

Re: BuyMobilephones.net letter of demand for £360 for ending contract early

Well just an update. Finally received a reply from my email/letter telling me the £360 was what they paid for the phone. They also said they would accept my offer of £120 which has been paid and account now closed. Time to move on I think!

[Lakesbiker]

Re: BuyMobilephones.net letter of demand for £360 for ending contract early

Caverncity thanks for posting. I have received in the last two days a letter from Burlington Group who say their clients A1 commes t/a as Buymobiles.com want £380 for a phone contract I cancelled under the cooling off period. I returned the phone etc. Worse still this contract was from 2012. And this is the first I've heard of any problem. I spoke to Adrian Smit at Burlington Group who admitted they were unhappy of dealing with these older outstanding accounts.after explaining my side he put the account on hold. I can't find any records and recall alot of communication was done on the phone. Any advice on the first few steps I should take? Thanks

[nemesis45]

Re: BuyMobilephones.net letter of demand for £360 for ending contract early

Take care in dealing with Burlington what you here and what happens often differ greatly, so deal in writing only so you have a paper trail.

It's up to Burlington to prove the debt, so a Formal Request for them to produce all the documents relating to the phone account (s).

Meanwhile you could send a Subject Access Request to the phone provider could well prove useful.
There is a £10 statutory fee to pay you can use a cheque or postal order endorsed "for statutory fee only." The phone provider has 4o days to comply.

Any problems with Burlington complain straight to the MD John Ingram.

nem