How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

[Dave19621510]

HI,
I received `judgement by default` from a county court for money Mr AW owes me.

The amount is (apprx) £200 and judgement was issued 2 month ago.
Now, I am proceeding to obtain information regarding the financial situation of this debtor by N316.

The question is what I can do further after N316:especially finding out the person's address.

I am quite sure that N316 will not provide much information.
The debtor is an English man in his mid-40s who was born and lives in London, never worked, has been depending on benefits all through his life, have 3 kids living in Birmingham, has been declared bankrupt (intentional bankruptcy to earn money from a bank), gaining daily maintenance money by conning people such as disabled people and women, no bank accounts, no property or assets apart from some assets hidden (from authority)in West-india.
Therefore, I am thinking about adding a request of all benefit related documents on N316.

The debtor most likely changed his address since he received the initial court order.
Is there any way to obtain his latest address from Department of Work and Pensions or Housing benefit office?

EX321 suggests that :
• a warrant of execution;
• an attachment of earnings order;
• a third party debt order; or
• a charging order.

Due to above reason, only `a warrant of execution` would be an available option.
It only works if the person actually lives in the address.
Due to safety, I try to avoid direct contact with the debtor unless being supervised.
I will use county court enforcement agent and possible other means to avoid direct contact: all contacts have so far been made through telephone and emails.

It would be much appreciated if anyone could advise me.

Regards / Dave

[wales01man]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

Any further action will cost money if you have no current address for him no authority will give it to you Data Protection.
If as it seems you do not want contact is there a problem? from an outsiders POV its wasting good money to pursue this sorry to say from what you have written its a no hope claim unless you want a £1 a month which is likely to be the best offer.
Would bet he has nothing that can easily be seized even if you could find him

That's my view others may have a different one wait for more answers

[FlamingParrot]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

HI,
I received `judgement by default` from a county court for money Mr AW owes me.

The amount is (apprx) £200 and judgement was issued 2 month ago.
Now, I am proceeding to obtain information regarding the financial situation of this debtor by N316.

The question is what I can do further after N316:especially finding out the person's address.

I am quite sure that N316 will not provide much information.
The debtor is an English man in his mid-40s who was born and lives in London, never worked, has been depending on benefits all through his life, have 3 kids living in Birmingham, has been declared bankrupt (intentional bankruptcy to earn money from a bank), gaining daily maintenance money by conning people such as disabled people and women, no bank accounts, no property or assets apart from some assets hidden (from authority)in West-india.

I'm sorry to say, but, going by the above, it sounds like you'd be trying to get blood out of a stone.

Therefore, I am thinking about adding a request of all benefit related documents on N316.

You can't get a deduction of benefits order, these can only be obtained for things like magistrates court fines, maintenance payments, utility or council tax arrears. If the individual is unemployed, you can't go for an attachment of earnings.

Due to above reason, only `a warrant of execution` would be an available option.
It only works if the person actually lives in the address.

It only works if the person lets the bailiffs in and there are goods to be seized. Sites like this one and many others (including the official ones) advise people not to let them in. Bailiffs don't work for free and you may not recover the fees from the debtor. Given the small amount of the judgment, I'd say you could be throwing good money after bad.

[Dave19621510]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

Any further action will cost money if you have no current address for him no authority will give it to you Data Protection.
If as it seems you do not want contact is there a problem? from an outsiders POV its wasting good money to pursue this sorry to say from what you have written its a no hope claim unless you want a £1 a month which is likely to be the best offer.
Would bet he has nothing that can easily be seized even if you could find him

That's my view others may have a different one wait for more answers

Hi,
Thank you for your reply. it is Valuable. Of cause, Data protection...

I understand many say it is wast of time and money to pursue this issue.
However, my point is not only retrieving the money, but also I feel I should not tolerate this person raking in the small money from here and there by conning vulnerable.

I would not mind spending another £100 for bailiffs or court action and receive £1/m in the end.
As long as this person is punished by law and people (especially those `helpful` women) realize what is right and wrong.

I avoid direct contact with this person due to the safety: unfortunately this society can not protect someone who is physically harmed for asking the money to be paid back.

Regards/ Dave

[Dave19621510]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

I'm sorry to say, but, going by the above, it sounds like you'd be trying to get blood out of a stone.
You can't get a deduction of benefits order, these can only be obtained for things like magistrates court fines, maintenance payments, utility or council tax arrears. If the individual is unemployed, you can't go for an attachment of earnings.

It only works if the person lets the bailiffs in and there are goods to be seized. Sites like this one and many others (including the official ones) advise people not to let them in. Bailiffs don't work for free and you may not recover the fees from the debtor. Given the small amount of the judgment, I'd say you could be throwing good money after bad.

Hi,

Thank you for your information, f Parrot.
It sounds like sending bailiffs would not work if the person does not let them in then.
Therefore, finding out his current address seems to be useless....

So, it looks like anyone can steal money from people as long as you do not have money or assets in the UK......

[FlamingParrot]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

I understand many say it is wast of time and money to pursue this issue.
However, my point is not only retrieving the money, but also I feel I should not tolerate this person raking in the small money from here and there by conning vulnerable.

I would not mind spending another £100 for bailiffs or court action and receive £1/m in the end.
As long as this person is punished by law and people (especially those `helpful` women) realize what is right and wrong.

I avoid direct contact with this person due to the safety: unfortunately this society can not protect someone who is physically harmed for asking the money to be paid back.

So, it looks like anyone can steal money from people as long as you do not have money or assets in the UK......

You say this individual is conning vulnerable people, stealing and threatening physical violence. These are criminal offences, which should be reported to the police. :mod:

Obtaining a CCJ is a civil procedure for the recovery of money owed, not a way to punish offenders, that's what the criminal justice system's for.

[Dave19621510]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

You say this individual is conning vulnerable people, stealing and threatening physical violence. These are criminal offences, which should be reported to the police. :mod:

Obtaining a CCJ is a civil procedure for the recovery of money owed, not a way to punish offenders, that's what the criminal justice system's for.

Hi,
Thanks for your comments.

The problem is that the crime this debtor commits are `Petty Crimes`.
Like my case, it is only £200. I would not think the police react to my report: they will probably only issue a crime report.
I have reported £1000 theft to the police a while ago, and the response was ` Why don't you forget about it and get along with your life. it is only £1000`. I asked for his identity. ` It is on my shoulder (showing his shoulder), report if you want, bye`.
This is the reality of criminal justice in the UK: this would be unthinkable in countries like the US or Japan. It does not mean there are laxness in policing here, it is just little different here.

This debtor only commits petty crimes, and getting away with any prosecution as people do not have time to deal with such a great deal of prosecution procedure such as small money claim or reporting to the police. And also, the authorities have to be cautious to deal with this British Black citizen due to the racial issues.

My wording of `punish` was not quite apt here actually.
My purpose is retrieving the money I m owed.
I would not think this if I did not become disabled. I would have thought the same as the police said: `forget and never deal with him`.
However, I feel I am responsible to deal with this case as I can't bear looking at those vulnerable suffer even little amount or physical violence which can not be traceable by the authorities.

I hope this was clear enough, but any other comments are welcome.

Regards

[Amethyst]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

How is he conning people out of the small amounts of money ?

[Dave19621510]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

How is he conning people out of the small amounts of money ?

HI,

Thank you for your interest. Amethy.
How???
The word `Conning` might ve been confusing.
If you sell a mobile phone without handing over the actual phone, but receiving the money and go.
It is a con and small amount of money, especially if the seller was well aware of the fact that the buyer can not move or comprehend the situation, but it can be a theft or deception or (according to the debtor) misunderstanding or late delivery ....

If you really want to know how to con people and make small amount of money, then I would not advise those. I'm sorry. But any comments or suggestions are welcome.

Regards

[Amethyst]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

So he's offering to sell phones to people, taking the money, and never giving them the phone - blaming it on misunderstandings and delivery services? Presumably this is via something like ebay ?

[bluebottle]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

From what the OP has said, this debtor's modus operandi is more in keeping with Fraud by False Misrepresentation (Section 2, Fraud Act 2006) than Theft (Section 1, Theft Act 1968). My question is, "Has the OP alerted Trading Standards and/or HMRC about this individual?" Both agencies are likely to be interested in his activities, given that he has a penchant for preying on the elderly and the vulnerable.

[Dave19621510]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

So he's offering to sell phones to people, taking the money, and never giving them the phone - blaming it on misunderstandings and delivery services? Presumably this is via something like ebay ?

Hi,
Not orgainized crime.
It is not via ebay or other classification adds.
Approaching member of public, either offering or asking for help, then take advantage of the vulnerability of people.
Therefore, it is the responsibility of those people if they release their money or not.
Therefore, it is not precisely theft, but exploiting people's generosity and consideration by telling lies.
IMO, the money should be paid back.
Do you think there are ways to enforce the judgement?
Regards


Regards

[Dave19621510]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

From what the OP has said, this debtor's modus operandi is more in keeping with Fraud by False Misrepresentation (Section 2, Fraud Act 2006) than Theft (Section 1, Theft Act 1968). My question is, "Has the OP alerted Trading Standards and/or HMRC about this individual?" Both agencies are likely to be interested in his activities, given that he has a penchant for preying on the elderly and the vulnerable.

Hi,
I am not sure what `OP` stand for...

This individual does not trade in public.
It is ,as I said, `Petty crimes` which only involves small amount of money (as far as I know). Therefore, Tax office would not be interested if the whole amount he `earns` was less than £1,000/y..
I am throwing my money wastefully in hope that this petty crime could be treated with justice, rather than just giving up like others do.

Do you still think HMRC should be notified of this individual?

Regards

[bluebottle]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

Hi,
I am not sure what `OP` stand for... Original Poster

This individual does not trade in public. Doesn't make any difference.
It is ,as I said, `Petty crimes` which only involves small amount of money (as far as I know). Doesn't make any difference.
Therefore, Tax office would not be interested if the whole amount he `earns` was less than £1,000/y.. You would be surprised. If he is claiming any benefits administered by HMRC, they will be interested.
I am throwing my money wastefully in hope that this petty crime could be treated with justice, rather than just giving up like others do.

Do you still think HMRC should be notified of this individual? Yes. I would also alert Trading Standards as to this individual's activities.

Regards

Responses in red text.

[Dave19621510]

Re: How to send bailiffs to a debtor who refuses court orders without fail?

Responses in red text.

Hi,

Thank you for your comment, Bluebottle.
I am not 100% sure what you mean by `Does not matter` on the issue of public or private and the size of the crime. I believe that `it does not matter in legal sense`.
It does matter when those victims consider the lengthy (and complicated) process of taking the issue further after realizing their money has gone.

If I fail to send the bailiffs or retrieve the money the debtor owes, then I would definitely contact Trading Standards or HMRC. I am not familiar with these contacting process, so will research.

I agree that it is `fraud` rather than theft according to the act on False misrepresentation.
However, it would be very difficult to present evidence though..

Regards