Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

[PlanB]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

This is a very serious matter with possibly dire consequences and someone is going to get it if they don't watch it - that is my attitude so if that comes out then that's the truth. They started it, we will finish it

^^^^ is this a joint liability issue since you refer to "we"?

Forgive me for saying this but is it possible that your attitude is getting in the way of resolving this issue amicably?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

As the Council haven't said anything about the actual procedure involved in the Summons to a hearing for non-payment of Council Tax which I have in front of me, I am clueless.

I have received summons on a couple of occasions in the past, on both occasions all I did was ring the Council and pay the outstanding amount. The last time I had actually been paying the CT, only my payments were late and I was told the Council only sends out two reminders per tax year, the third one is a summons. The lady also said the process is quite automated, the late payments triggered the reminders (which I ignored because I'd been paying), then the third time you get the summons.

As it is in the Magistrates Court, it must be a criminal matter, yes? So which rules would apply? Can witnesess be called? Can it be asked that the claim to be dismissed? What about evidence? Etc.

It's a civil matter, to decide liability for the unpaid tax. It would only be a criminal matter if you had deliberately misled the council to obtain the benefit.

There actually is no liability for the CT, and the day after that hearing there is a hearing in the County Court with the Council as Defendants to decide liability.

I noted you mentioned Council Tax Benefit on another post. You are liable to pay your Council Tax while your CTB application is being processed or decided, you can then have the amount you have paid, credited.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

Liability Orders in the Magistrates Court are unusual in the fact they are Civil and not Criminal. To progress further after the Magistrates involves going to the High Court. Before attending the lower Court do you have a valid excuse/defence against the Order the Council are seeking?

Absolutely - they are the ones who are liable - as per the Act quoted above.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

It's a civil matter, to decide liability for the unpaid tax.

Oh! So labman is incorrect in quoting the above criminal procedure rules? So the CPR applies then? Yes? I thought that applied in the County Court etc - but it can also apply in the Magistrates' Court? Really?

[labman]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

Oh! So labman is incorrect in quoting the above criminal procedure rules? So the CPR applies then? Yes? I thought that applied in the County Court etc - but it can also apply in the Magistrates' Court? Really?

I quoted a link to procedures. You read it and interpret it as you wish. You seem determined to undermine me in this post - I guess that is your prerogative. You had correct answers from me in posts 3 and 5, this is post 20.

I suspect strongly you knew the answer to your question before you even asked it and have entertained yourself wasting peoples' time. What a shame you don't have better things to do with your life.

Perhaps an explanation of why you have felt it necessary to do this would be in order? You have been confrontational, rude and do not appear to sit comfortably into the ways of LB - perhaps that explains why you have made just 43 posts in over three years. You portray a very strange and sad picture of someone. Let's hope you find more happiness soon.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

^^^^ is this a joint liability issue since you refer to "we"?

Forgive me for saying this but is it possible that your attitude getting in the way of resolving this issue amicably?

Not joint - I am taking care of it.

Say what you like and you will always be forgiven if it's genuine - but believe me, my attitude is the only thing that's going to stop the Council's unlawful behaviour, or at least help try and make them pay if they don't.

Look, they didn't make a Decision in accordance with the rules, and despite being warned about the impending claim chose to still not act lawfully. A judge will now decide the issue.

They then jumped the gun and got in this claim in the MC the day before the CC Hearing, which at the very least is in bad faith.

Now the Chief Exec will get a letter explaining that he needs to withdraw their action on pain of lots of damages being claimed for malicious prosecution or whatever in the CC upon appearance at the MC, for time spent there, for any orders made and if any criminal conviction ensues.

What else ya gonna do?

[wales01man]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

Do you really think that anyone at the council will be in pain if you win any damages?
its not their money they will be losing and what criminal convictions do you expect please tell al

[PlanB]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

they didn't make a Decision in accordance with the rules, and despite being warned about the impending claim chose to still not act lawfully. A judge will now decide the issue. They then jumped the gun and got in this claim in the MC the day before the CC Hearing, which at the very least is in bad faith.

Now the Chief Exec will get a letter explaining that he needs to withdraw their action on pain of lots of damages being claimed for malicious prosecution or whatever in the CC upon appearance at the MC, for time spent there, for any orders made and if any criminal conviction ensues.

You've completely lost me now. Exactly what is your claim against your local authority in the County Court?

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

I suspect strongly you knew the answer to your question before you even asked it and have entertained yourself wasting peoples' time. What a shame you don't have better things to do with your life.

Mmmm. So I may be lying and entertaining myself seems to be your suggestion. Tell you what, fill in the blank for me and I'll stop it. The facts are in dispute - you say something, someone else says the opposite - confusion still reigns.

Perhaps an explanation of why you have felt it necessary to do this would be in order? You have been confrontational, rude and do not appear to sit comfortably into the ways of LB - perhaps that explains why you have made just 43 posts in over three years. You portray a very strange and sad picture of someone. Let's hope you find more happiness soon.

Personal attacks on straight talking posters asking simple questions is quite common in forums all over, and not worth the bother taking seriously.

Uness you really are that sensitive, in which case sorry for upsetting you when I said whatever it was that did that to you.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

You've completely lost me now. Exactly what is your claim against your local authority in the County Court?

That they are ordered to make a Decision, or a judge's decision is substituted, on a suspended HB/CT claim in accordance with Sections 13 and 14 of Part III of the Housing and Council Tax Benefit Regulations 2001.

They say Section 12 allows indefinite suspension of benefit, but they are wrong.

[labman]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

I'm not sure what game you're playing, but I don't think it's my type. It will be interesting to see what happens with your court cases. The LO will be granted if it's a bulk one. If you think you'll gain a criminal conviction against the Chief Exec, I fear there is some delusion going on.

Why not focus your energies into sorting out your HB / CTB so your CT bill is accurate and you pay only what you should rightly pay? This would be far, far more productive.

It's possible I've misread your post - oh yes, and thanks for the apology, I am very sensitive.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

Do you really think that anyone at the council will be in pain if you win any damages?
its not their money they will be losing and what criminal convictions do you expect please tell al

Some council employees are already feeling some pressure - and I mean in a personal way.

No criminal action is likely, but a claim for damages due to malicious prosecution or similar in a County Court is. Failing that they will be subject to complaints to the Local Government Ombudsman and MP etc, but most importantly they will be made, in any event, via the CC, after all this has been settled, to do repairs which they should have done years ago - unlawfully unmade repairs, in fact. Landlords get fined big time for the breaches of housing law involved.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

I'm not sure what game you're playing, but I don't think it's my type. It will be interesting to see what happens with your court cases. The LO will be granted if it's a bulk one. If you think you'll gain a criminal conviction against the Chief Exec, I fear there is some delusion going on.

Why not focus your energies into sorting out your HB / CTB so your CT bill is accurate and you pay only what you should rightly pay? This would be far, far more productive.

It's possible I've misread your post - oh yes, and thanks for the apology, I am very sensitive.

No rudeness intended, but do you not see how it hasn't been sorted due the Council refusing to follow the law? And that the CC hearing is to make them act lawfully? And that they jumped in with their claim after proceedings were issued against them over the exact same issue?

Like I said, 'what ya gonna do?'. Begging hasn't worked and letters remain unanswered - what else can one do?

[labman]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

A noble effort I'm sure, but I fear you will be very disappointed with the outcome. I hope sincerely you prove me wrong.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

A noble effort I'm sure, but I fear you will be very disappointed with the outcome. I hope sincerely you prove me wrong.

Thanks for the words in support, labman.

The outcome of the County Court claim should be positive - and it is the correct action to take to force compliance with the law.

The Council say the only preventative action re the MC claim is full payment of around £800, which is a lie. They can stop this action any time they like, and will soon be told they had better do just that or else. So it's up to them if they want to continue to defy the law and make frivilous and malicious claims - I'm pretty sure some damages can be claimed via the CC - or that a case examiner will order such.

Come Tuesday a submission will be made along with a letter to the County Court who will be asked to make an emergency/interim order preventing the Council's MC claim from going ahead. Whether or not this will work, or is even allowable, is in doubt, but nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

The alternative is to allow oneself to be bullied, maybe to lose one's home, be subject to paying unowed money, face a criminal record for not paying aforesaid unowed money and basically allowing these law-breakers to get away scot-free (can I say that these days?).

All they needed to do was make a decision: restore or terminate benefit. Who is making a mountain out of a mole hill? I'd say it's them.