Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

[labman]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

As I said I genuinely wish you luck - please let us know the outcome whatever. I don't hold my breath - forgive the scepticism, but I've been here too many times before, personally and with others.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

I will report back sometime after June 5/6 with the results.

Cheers!

[wales01man]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

good luck.but I like some on here will not hold our breath when you realise the circles that magistrates judges and senior council workers move in its an exclusive club where they look after each other not you or the rest of us

[PlanB]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

That they are ordered to make a Decision, or a judge's decision is substituted, on a suspended HB/CT claim in accordance with Sections 13 and 14 of Part III of the Housing and Council Tax Benefit Regulations 2001. They say Section 12 allows indefinite suspension of benefit, but they are wrong.

Why haven't you taken your challenge to the council's decision to suspened your HB to a Tribunal, and then apply for a Judicial Review if that fails?

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

Why haven't you taken your challenge to the council's decision to suspened your HB to a Tribunal, and then apply for a Judicial Review if that fails?

No need and too slow plus may not be able to.

The County Court gave a hearing date five weeks after the application - a Tribunal Appeal could take many months.

Also there was no appealable decision as such - benefit was suspended due to a failure to satisfy information requirements- no appeal lies against the suspension as such as the law states clearly what should follow - which is Termination or Restoration of benefit.

I suppose what could be appealed against is the decision to continue the suspension, and that may be done if the County Court action fails.

Also, I have much more confidence in the County Court reaching a fair decision. This wasn't always my view, but I have seen some things recently which make me shudder a bit.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

good luck.but I like some on here will not hold our breath when you realise the circles that magistrates judges and senior council workers move in its an exclusive club where they look after each other not you or the rest of us

Thanks.

I am quite aware of the them and us situation - have been for a while now. Blissful ignorance has been replaced by combative preparedness.

I've seen first hand how even government barristers can get told off and put to the test when they act silly before a County Court judge, so I have some confidence that the hearing on the 6th will go well.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

benefit was suspended due to a failure to satisfy information requirements- no appeal lies against the suspension as such as the law states clearly what should follow - which is Termination or Restoration of benefit.

Actually, upon a failure to satisfy information requirements, termination takes place from the date of the suspension.

So really it's more about getting this in writing along with the reasons for termination and rights of appeal.

But that choice has been taken away from the Council, and so now restoration of benefit is theoretically possible. Even if they make a decision to terminate benefit before the hearing the hearing will go ahead unless they agree to stop possession proceedings also.

[PlanB]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

if they make a decision to terminate benefit before the hearing the hearing will go ahead unless they agree to stop possession proceedings also.

Can you provide a little more information about these possession proceedings to see if we can help. Are you in social housing or with a private landlord ? Has you landlord issued you with a Section 8 Notice for rent arrears caused by the lack of your HB payments or a Section 21 Notice because your fixed term tenancy agreement (AST) is due to expire or has expired?

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

Can you provide a little more information about these possession proceedings to see if we can help. Are you in social housing or with a private landlord ? Has you landlord issued you with a Section 8 Notice for rent arrears caused by the lack of your HB payments or a Section 21 Notice because your fixed term tenancy agreement (AST) is due to expire or has expired?

The landlord is the Council. There has been issue of a notice - something to do with seeking the possession order - will get back to you on this tomorrow with the actual form details.

And thanks for the concern.

[seduraed]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

why dont you just supply the information they want . It would save a lot work and heartache.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

why dont you just supply the information they want . It would save a lot work and heartache.

Eh? I have no idea what you are talking about.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

Eh? I have no idea what you are talking about.

Although I just guessed it might be this:

Information requirements are not the same thing as a response to an enquiry. There has been no failure to respond to requests for information - it's whether or not the information requirements are satisfied - which is independent of supply of information - it's a fact as opposed to an opinion.

Satisfying the information requirements means being entitled to benefit due to financial circumstances, as opposed to being an action which is required in response to a request for information - though supply or failure to supply information might result in information requirements being satisfied or not satisfied.

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

The answers to the questions in my first post are still not immediately apparent, but it looks like the applicable procedure is the Magistrates' Court Act 1980 Part II Civil Jusidiction and Procedure, so that's a start.

A Defence/Witness Statement/Evidence was sent to the Magistrates' Court today. It may or may not help, but it was done also with an appeal in mind in case the LO is granted - would anybody like to see what it said? OK, here you go:

'Dear Clerk to the Justices,

You informed me by letter that Complaint had been made to you that I am subject to a Council Tax charge and have failed to pay it. This is incorrect. The liability actually lies with the Claimant, Scumbag MBC. I include evidence for this in the form of a Witness Statement/Statement of Truth which I wish the Magistrates to receive copies of before the Hearing, in addition to copies of this letter which form part of that evidence.

I wish the Court to consider the following options:

1. Dismiss the claim forthwith. There is no case to answer because the liability for Council Tax lies with the Claimant, Scumbag MBC, under Part III Sections 13 and 14 of the Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit Regulations 2001. Scumbag Council have a duty under the Act to Restore or Terminate HB/CTB upon compliance or failure to satisfy information requirements, but have instead indefinitely suspended the benefits, which is not in accordance with this Act or any other rule and is unlawful. The Defendant had an ongoing claim for JSA and Housing and Council Tax Benefit, but her HB and CTB were suspended on 18 January 2013 (Evidence A). The Council failed to make a decision so the claim remains suspended. My entitlement to all the above benefits, however, is still ongoing, and unless the Claimant [Glad I put this up - I incorrectly put Defendant here so will have to contact the court with the correction] can show that that entitlement has ended and that no appeal is outstanding then they are the ones who remain liable for the outstanding arrears. Council Tax remains unpaid due to Scumbag MBC's unlawfully failing to make a decision in line with the above Regulations.

2. Adjourn the Hearing until after June 6 when a Decision of the County Court will be made as to my entitlement. I include (Evidence B & C) a copy of my claim form and notification of the Hearing date.

3. Substitute or add Scumbag Metropolitan Borough Council as Defendant or Joint Defendant. Evidence D is a copy of my letter sent to the Chief Executive of Scumbag Council explaining how he needs to withdraw the claim and why. The money asked for by the Claimant is money which they unlawfully retain themselves. I do not have the responsibility for paying out money which has already been decided is payable on my behalf by the Claimant - unless it can be shown that it no longer is payable, which is not the case. As the Claimant is liable for the charges they should be made to appear before the Magistrates to explain why they have not paid them.

4. Consider the attached evidence which contains the facts and the applicable law and make a judgement which takes all matters into account and which avoids a breach of my legal and Human Rights, including my right to have this matter considered in the County Court the day after this Hearing without interference from another civil claim citing the same facts and seeking to pre-empt or negate the results of a hearing booked well in advance of this current claim for Council Tax. The hearing on 6 June is to force Scumbag Council to make a decision, or instead will result in an order of the judge's choice. This Hearing was arranged long before this claim for Council Tax was made.

This a malicious action, vexatious in nature, and very spiteful.'

[Inca]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

I sense FMOTL?

[samsmoot]

Re: Legal Procedure for Liability Hearing for Non-Payment of Council Tax

I sense FMOTL?

Haha! Seen it, considered it, useless and pathetic. To say nothing of the dangers.

I like to try and use the proper law, as opposed to made up ones - I think that's apparent.

Sometimes you get it right, sometimes wrong; sometimes there is a correct and just decision, sometimes not. Some agendas are too big to be thwarted, but sometimes big shots (they think) get brought down a peg or two.

What you have to do is have a go - or take it lying down or go crying to an 'adviser' or 'regulator' for 'help'.