Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

[des8]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

Quite possibly!

So as you appear to be getting nowhere with the monkeys escalate complaint to CEO, with simple (so he can understand) chronological report, as per post 17.

[dido]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

Hmmh.

One of the terms of the settlement letter is that if I do not sign it by 4pm today then the company will not have to fulfil their end of the settlement.

It would seem that they only asked me to produce a SIGNATURE of this letter only thirty minutes before this deadline so that I would most likely agree to my end of the settlement and get a signature to them AFTER this deadline (i.e. all matters are considered done and dusted) and they would not have to pay me anything.

[des8]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

In your first post you said: , "I recently settled a problem with a betting online company. The settlement offer was some money and some free bets."

Was that offer in writing?
Did the terms of that offer include having to sign that settlement letter?
Was your acceptance in writing prior to this hassle over settlement letter?

If the answer is yes to all three of the above tell them they can't amend the terms of the agreed settlement

[dido]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

In your first post you said: , "I recently settled a problem with a betting online company. The settlement offer was some money and some free bets."

Was that offer in writing?
Did the terms of that offer include having to sign that settlement letter?
Was your acceptance in writing prior to this hassle over settlement letter?

If the answer is yes to all three of the above tell them they can't amend the terms of the agreed settlement

The offer was in a settlement letter from their employee last Tuesday. There was no request for my signature. The email said letter was attached to asked me to respond to the email to accept the terms if the letter whichh I promptly did.

Then this hassle befire the werkemd snd now almost a week later.

[des8]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

So tell them they can't retrospectively amend the terms of the agreed settlement, which did not require your signature on a letter.

[dido]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

UPDATE:

They have made the payment and placed the free bets in the opened account following an email stating the above from des8.

They apologised for the confusion/messing me around.

So now ??? CEO letter time?

[des8]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

So they agree they fouled up.
So now pursue them for compensation for the loss of chance.
Softly softly perhaps to begin with...i.e. one more letter to those you have been corresponding with, pointing out that their foul up cost you and you want recompense, and if it doesn't appear you will take the matter further.
Then the CEO.
Then if you are feeling brave initiate a claim. Under £10000 will be small claims court so no real worries about exorbitant costs if you lose!

[dido]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

Okay, latest developments - from start to finish really - it's going to be a long post, sorry:

Emails -

FROM ME:

So having accepted, where are we at with this please?



FROM THEM:

Morning Mr ????,

We are processing and will be in touch to confirm bank details and crediting.

Many thanks,



FROM THEM (DIFFERENT DEPARTMENT):

Dear Mr ????,

Please see attached offer in relation to your online account.

Should you accept this offer we would need to confirm your payment details.

Can you please confirm that you still have the credit/debit cards ending *???? and *???? in order for payment of £2,300.00 to be made.

If not can you please provide us with your current bank details.

Thank you.

Security & Payments Team


OFFER LETTER AS FOLLOWS:

(bear in mind I already accepted this offer, in an email in response to the same above letter, sent to me a week before by a different member of staff, who specifically asked me to email back my acceptance).


7 November

CONFIDENTIAL AND WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Dear Mr ???,

I refer to our correspondence in relation to use of the company’s services, your complaint, and specifically your email dated October 26^th in which you confirm details of your offer to settle this matter.

The company appreciates your cooperation in this matter.

Having considered your comments, the company hereby offers you the following terms of settlement which we consider reasonable:

Payment of £2,300 cash
And
Free bets for use online with company, totaling £1,000

(‘Offer’)

This offer is made in full and final settlement of this matter and is open for acceptance only until 4pm on 13 November 2017. Should you fail to accept this Offer before such time and date, then the company shall be under no obligation to comply with the terms of this Offer.

Should you accept this Offer, the cash element of the Offer shall be paid into your bank account which we hold online for your online account (for completeness, we shall confirm such bank details to you prior to payment) and, in respect of the free bets, your online account shall be opened and credited by us, as soon as reasonably practicable.

By accepting this Offer, you agree that the matter has been resolved; accordingly, as suggested in your email dated October 26^th, you agree not to pursue any action with any third party regulatory bodies, in relation to this matter.

All of the company’s rights are fully reserved.


EMAIL FROM ME:

I no longer have the account with the card ending ????. I have an email somewhere and will forward in in due course.

I would, however, prefer the payment to a new account?

Also, when will the 1K be in my reinstated account?

Thanks,



FROM THEM:

Dear Mr ???,

We will credit the account with free bets today.

Once you have provided a bank statement showing your full name, address, account number and sort code, then a BACs payment will be processed.

Upon accepting the credit to your accounts (both internally and externally) the matter will be considered resolved in full.

Thank you

Security and Payments Team

The the shitstorm – i.e. went online that night to place the bets I wanted to place. The account was locked.

My online chat with them:

22:29:42 [Me] Locked out of account
22:30:48 [Them] Hello, welcome to online Live Support. My name is ****.

In order to assist you quicker, please can you confirm the following details: Username, Full name, Postcode, Date of birth and the answer to your security question?

22:31:21 [Me] MY DETAILS
22:33:33 [Them] This account is closed as you have opened a further account.
22:34:07 [Me] other account details (censored) then, I need to reopen I have 1K of free bets in there
22:35:42 [Them] I do apologise but the accounts can not be opened via chat, you would need to email through to EMAIL ADDRESS
22:36:55 [Me] Ah no I need the account reopened now I have bets to place on NHL
22:37:16 [Me] I spoke to your people many times this week, and was told the 1K would be placed in my account today to use
22:37:26 [Me] I can't use it if the account is closed can I?
22:37:41 [Them] Then can you give me the correct details for your account as the details above are not correct.
22:40:31 [Me] I was using CENSORED last? You probably have the address CENSORED 22:41:47 [Them] Where were you born?
22:42:01 [Me] CENSORED
22:43:01 [Them] Have you provided your up to date payment details to the security team yet?
22:43:16 [Me] No I will do next week
22:45:18 [Them] The account can not be opened until you have done that sorry, and we would not open it here, once those details have been received management will be informed.
22:46:17 [Me] Open my account I have paid for tips and plan to use them right now for NHL - I am probably not sending payment details and will have the £2300 payment made to the existing card on my account so that is a non-issue
22:46:26 [Me] open the account please I have NHL bets to place
22:46:38 [Me] ???
22:47:06 [Me] Seriously this is a settlement in order to avoid a legal case - if you people are going to start messing me about straight away I am going to go absolutely ballistic
22:47:11 [Them] I am sorry i do not have the authority to open the account.
22:47:18 [Me] GET ME A SUPERVISOR
22:47:21 [Me] NEO
22:47:23 [Me] NOW
22:47:42 [Them] i have advised what you are required to do for the account to be reopened.
22:48:04 [Me] YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME???? MY ACOUNT SHOULD BE OPEN ALREADY I HAVE 1K OF BETS IN THERE TO PLACE
22:48:11 [Me] GET ME A SUPERVISOR
22:48:59 [Them] Sorry we do not have one on sit until 7 am tomorrow. They finished at 10.00pm.
22:49:05 [Them] *site
22:49:11 [Me] YOU HAVE MESSED UP BIG TIME


Cue missing the chance to make at least 5K

EMAIL FROM ME:

I went online Friday night to place these free bets. Account is still closed.

Why did you tell me Friday it would be "today?"


FROM THEM:

Dear ???

As previously stated, once you have provided a bank statement showing your full name, address, account number and sort code, a bank transfer payment will be processed, however, we have not received this from yourself.
Once received, your free bets will be credited.

Fraud prevention team



FROM ME:


Payment was/is to go to the card in my account ending ???? as I cannot get a bank statement from the other account for weeks.


FROM THEM:

Dear Mr ????.

Can you please sign and return the attached letter confirming acceptance of the offer.

Once received your account will be reopened and credited as stated.

Thank you.

Kind Regards Verification Team

FROM ME:

Sign where???

You people gave said nothing about signing anything.

I accepted this offer already?!?



Hi,

You would just need to print the document which was attached in the last email, print your name, sign and date it on the second page then take a photograph and email back to us.

Once we have this we should be able to remove the restrictions on the account without too much delay.

Kind regards, Fraud Prevention Department

FROM ME:

You cannot retrospectively amend the terms of the settlement agreement, which did not require my signature to accept it.

Please make the payment to my card ending ???? immediately.


FROM THEM:


HI,

After referring your account to management, your account has been re-opened, the £2300 has been sent to the withdrawals team for processing back to your card ending *???? and £1000 of free bets have been added to your account.

Feel free to login to your account anytime. Sorry for the confusion and inconvenience caused.

Kind regards, Fraud Prevention Department

The emails above happened on Wednesday November 15^th.

I did not make use of the free bets.


I sent this email to the person who agreed the original settlement on Monday November 27^th:

Mrs ???,

If you check my account you will find that the free bet credit has not been used, nor will it be. There is a new complaint to deal with, and I am still angry about what happened to lead to this new complaint, though not as manically crazy as I was two weeks ago, when I was not even able to write an email without losing my cool.

The previous issue which we reached settlement on, revolved around issues of maladministration, misinformation, unhelpful and curt staff, and most importantly, a situation where said staff tried to put the onus on me for their mistakes.

I had hoped that the olive branch I offered, which was to accept part of the settlement as free bets, would lead to a renewed effort to form good relations between us, and a special effort to avoid any more problems.

This effort towards new relations faltered straight away.

I now think that the relations between myself and your comapny have irrevocably broken down.

I was told on Friday 10th November, in response to my question of when my free bets would be placed in my reinstated account, that they would be available that day.

I had been watching a tipster on the website CENSORED the previous two days, recommended to me, purchasing his tips - he had won every tip those previous days.

On that Friday I bought four tips - proof attached - and planned to place accumulator bets using the free bets, based on the solid 100% success of this tipster, who was on fire. I relied on the information your staff provided me with.

When I could not log in to my account that night, I used the online chat to sort the matter out, only to be met with curt, unhelpful staff. I told them I wanted to bet on the NHL and was left locked out of my account regardless.

I then followed this up the next few days, my account still locked, only to have your staff try to tell me that I needed to provide a signature on a letter which had never required one. Further, they tried to make out that the settlement had not yet been accepted, despite the response I made to your email, in which you requested ACCEPTANCE by replying to that email.

They tried to put the onus on me for the latest muck-up. INFURIATING.

They then subsequently sorted out the settlement after I called them out on this BS.

I am holding your company responsible for the Loss of Chance I incurred in not being able to place the bets I wanted to place. As far as I am concerned the terms of the settlement were not met by the timeline advised, and my reliance on said terms/timeframe has led to said Loss of Chance, and so I expect your company must make amends.

You can see from my betting history my style of betting (many fold accumulator bets, big stakes, NHL), and I also told you I was planning on betting on the NHL. Finally, proof of the tips is attached.

I would have placed a MINIMUM of eleven £50 bets - all 3 and 2 fold bets - and a £50 bet on the 4 fold.

I hope you will not be difficult here as it will end up in Court if they are.

Please note, I have not tried to make out that I was just going to place one big bet of £1,000 on a four fold ACCA, and I hope you take this into account. It could have well been that I decided to place EXACTLY this type of bet when logged into my account that night.

Sincerely,

Mr ????


I went online the following weekend to place £450 of bets – the remaining balance – on bets that would have made me 6K - only to find the free bets were not in there.


FROM THEM Dec 6^th:

Dear Mr ????.

I have received and attach all the email correspondence between you and our security team between 10^th November and 14^th November (ALL EMAILS ABOVE) which clearly demonstrates your awareness of the actions required to re-open your account and the actions taken by the security team to re-open your account on 14^th November 2017 which was confirmed to you at 18.36 on 14 November 2017.

COMPANY cannot be held responsible for bets you may or may not have placed had your account been re-opened and free bets credited prior to 14^th November.

Kind regards,

Head of Digital Compliance


FROM ME DEC 6^th:
What complete horseshit.

The free bets are no longer in my account regardless. I logged in to place the remaining £450 this past weekend on bets that would have won me six grand.

I am taking legal action this weekend for the full £10,000.

Is Mr ??? (the company CEO who authorised the previous settlement) aware of this latest cock-up?


FROM ME THAT SAME NIGHT:

I would place the remaining £450, were it available, on the following equally between three and then the one four fold for tonights Champions league games -

Tottenham -1.5
Besiktas +2
Real Madrid WIN
Porto -2

So you are aware.

All tips.


FROM ME THE NEXT DAY:

Right pay up please. All the bets below came in last night.



FROM ME:

You have seen all emails, so you are aware how ridiculous it is to state you did not muck up, and that your staff mislead me?

The emails also confirm the free bets will be placed in my account, and they were, but now they are not in there, and they haven't been for the last week.

In which time I would have placed bets which would have won me 10K.

I ask again - what is your response to the missing free bets? and is CEO aware of this latest cock-up?

And are you ready to go to Court? I am filing Monday.

I am FURIOUS.



FROM THEM:

Dear Mr ????,

You wrote to me on 27^th November advising that “the free bet credit has not been used, nor will it be” and that “relations between myself and COMPANY have irrevocably broken down”. In addition you sought redress from COMPANY for loss of chance on bets you may or may have placed between 10^th November and the date the free bets were credited and your account re-opened (14/11/17) to which I replied stating COMPANY would not be held responsible for bets you may or may not have placed prior to your account being re-opened. I also forwarded you the email trail of correspondence between you and our security team between 10^th and 14^th November.

Can you please advise what further response you require from me if you do not want to use the free bets or transact further with COMPANY, per your email of 27^th November.

Kind regards,

????


I spoke to the lady just now. She stated that the free bets expire after a time, and have to be replaced, so, because I stated I no longer wanted them, they weren’t put back in the account.

Two things come to mind – 1) I wasn’t told about any expiry, and also, 2) it seems to me that they can’t on one hand make out they have completed all parts of their end of the settlement and ae above reproach, and on the other say they don’t have to make sure the free bets are in the betting account and it is not their responsibility.

Sorry for such a long post – do you have any thoughts?

[des8]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

Another letter to CEO, headed "Letter before Action" giving him 7 days from receipt (send signed for) to finally sort the debacle or you initiate court proceedings.

Pity you said that about an irrevocable breakdown, but I suppose an action for breach of contract in that the offeror has failed to implement the terms of the agreement is possible.

[dido]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

No response - time to take them on in Court?

Am I right in thinking that they cannot on one hand state they have followed the terms on the settlement, and on the other allow this free bet credit to disappear from my account? Regardless of if I told them I would not be using it, and particularly because no expiry for use was advised to me?

The account is closed now, so they have effectively robbed me of a grand plus what that money would have made me in successful bets.

[dido]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

Anyone?

[des8]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

I think they could just about argue that the free bet credit of £1000 was implicitly rejected, on the basis you said it would not be used.
Perhaps however they should have warned you they would remove it, as they had not put a time limit on its availability.
But what about the £2300.... did that also disappear?

[dido]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

No that was forthcoming.

- - - Updated - - -

No that was already paid.

[dido]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

Even if they thought I was rejecting the free bets, I am of the opinion that as no expiry was advised, I was therefore not forewarned that the free bet credit might not always be readily available in my account balance and so their company, regardless of my telling them I would not use the free bets, are liable for letting them lapse, and so my not being able to place more/other bets that then went on to win.

They stated that as far as they were concerned they had kept their side of the settlement. Said email did not state the free bets were no longer in my account, nor did said email give a warning of any expiry.

I was aware that the free bets had disappeared some days earlier. So in response to their email I pointed this out. I then sent another email detailing bets I would place that night were I able to access said free bets.

These bets, the second lot I had advised them of, went on to win, and would have made about 4K.

At no stage for the next week were the free bets put back in my account nor was I advised of what was happening, despite my emailing them to chase up a response.

I had to call, following another email from them, finally, with no explanation of what was going on.

I was told in the call that the free bets had an expiry, and would I like them put back in my account?

I told them no, I was taking legal action, and they then closed the account.

[dido]

Re: Bet company settlement - are they now liable?

It seems to me that whilst I suppose it is acceptable that they might see no need to put these free bets back in the account if they did have an expiry, they did not advise of an expiry. In other words when the free bets were placed in my account I was led to believe that they were there to stay.

My telling them that I did not intend to use them is not a good enough excuse for them to allow them to expire if they wish to state that they have followed the terms of our settlement, as said settlement does not advise that the free bets, mine, sat in my balance in my account, had any expiry.

As of the date I advised them of the second lot of bets I would place, I think that I had every right, as the account was still open and fully functioning, to expect them to be sat in my balance, as I was not to know that they might be gone.

They cannot claim that I excused them from following the terms of the settlement, in other words, which mentioned no expiry, and at the same time suggest they have followed the terms of the settlement.