What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

[CleverClogs]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

He's not told us the age of his daughters but he needs to bare in mind that when they reach 13 years (if they haven't already) they will have the legal right to chose which parent they want to live with. At that age children tend to make emotionally driven decisions so if they've witnessed any negative behaviour in the family home then they will vote with their feet.

At what age will more mercenary instincts take over?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

And look where that got you. msl:

[CleverClogs]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

Exactly.

And you're not even the leader of the banned.

[MissFM]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

As this post is at least partially (maybe wholly? Don't honestly know) aimed at me - although it's off-thread - I'm going to reply to it. I have taken time to calm down before replying but am aware that this may be my last post:horn:on this, or any, forum.

It strikes me that some posters here firmly misunderstand what this forum is for, and what "advice" is. Are you speaking for the forum here, or for yourself? I suppose it's correct to assume from the comprehensive thanks below that it's for the forum. And can routinely change their opinion on these matters at the drop of a hat depending on which point of view they wish to believe today. Yes, some of us take a longer time to make up our minds -and we also take time to form an opinion which might change as further facts are presented in response to questions, maybe. What is wrong with that please?

The fora at Legal Beagles do not restrict people to giving advice - if that were the case then there should be no discussion, no debate and no threads on any issues that are not queries for advice. Nobody should be allowed to comment on any matter upon which they are not qualified to comment; advice should be monitored for content and quality;
and some of the people who currently post comments, advice and suggestions on this site would never be allowed to do so. MissFM for example? Probably quite a few others.

Others would only be allowed to post on matters for which they were qualified to comment. That is the manner is which "advice agencies" operate - they have no view whatsoever about their clients or conduct, and are legally liable for the advice that is given.

Legal Beagles is not such an agency - people do not get a guarantee on what will be said, the professional expertise of people who tell them things, nor the accuracy of their "advice". Quite!

I have personally seen "advice" on this site that is legally incorrect, and passed off as fact - I have said so too, but in the end, posters decide for themselves what they wish to believe, and if they take advice that is wrong, then that is their decision. Now you may make of that what you will, and you may think that that is what should happen or not -

but it is the fact of Legal Beagles, and if that is not what you signed up for then you should decide whether it is for you or not. Clearly the Black Spot is to be bestowed.

If you want to be part of something that restricts itself to narrow interpretations of advice - and there is nothing wrong with that - I believe Citizens Advice are always desperately short of volunteers. Thanks.

If you are a member here, or post here, that is not what you are getting. I find it fascinating that at least one person (that's me isn't it?) here criticising others for "passing judgement" not criticism, just observations btw (please see - and do please actually read - posts above and on the quoted thread) has quite recently made comments arguing that my opinions are, and I (mis)quote, "logical ********" whilst simultaneously posting a whole load of opinions themselves heaven forfend! - so not incapable of passing judgement themselves when they wish to!

The correct quotation from that post is logical fallacies. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy

Elsewhere in the same post I did, fair play, say absolute ********.

Both were referring to your mode of argument, not you or your opinions.

There is a huge difference between judging someone's mode of argument - even their opinions - and passing judgment on people.

There is also no clear definition of what advice consists of - and on some subjects any advice is going to be subject to context and there will be different views of what the right advice would be................................................ .................................................. .................................................. ................................... It is ridiculous to suggest that someone who is................................................ .................................................. ............................... And anyone who thinks that these are appropriate ways to conduct matters will get my "advice" that they are not.

Everyone acknowledges how qualified - excellent - you are in your field but outside it - in the area of human experience - the field is level, albeit varied, and you are no more infallible than us chickens - which is the huge value of a forum. IMVHO. And I personally don't think the OP in this thread was well served by any of us.

I really don't see how friendship should preclude disagreement - surely it's good to have different opinions and discuss them with goodwill rather than everyone have to agree or be squashed?

Off to fall on my sword now.

[Eloise01]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

As this post is at least partially (maybe wholly? Don't honestly know) aimed at me - although it's off-thread - I'm going to reply to it. I have taken time to calm down before replying but am aware that this may be my last post:horn:on this, or any, forum.



Everyone acknowledges how qualified - excellent - you are in your field but outside it - in the area of human experience - the field is level, albeit varied, and you are no more infallible than us chickens - which is the huge value of a forum. IMVHO. And I personally don't think the OP in this thread was well served by any of us.

I really don't see how friendship should preclude disagreement - surely it's good to have different opinions and discuss them with goodwill rather than everyone have to agree or be squashed?

Off to fall on my sword now.

Oh for goodness sake it was most certainly not aimed at you in particular, or you personally; and frankly it is getting rather boring repeatedly explaining to you that comments made are not what you have interpreted them as, do not say what you think they say, and that simply because people do not agree with you is not grounds to start taking it personally and thinking that everything is about you.

I really do not give a damn what you think - you may have expressed your opinion, I happen to disagree with you and several others, and have expressed my opinion. If you think that disagreeing with you is personal, then you are wrong. But if you feel that you aren't cut out for forums, that is your decision - don't go around blaming me or others because they disagree with you; and do not make it as if I have personally driven you away. That is high drama, not truth. I haven't and I couldn't be bothered to. I am sure it will come as a huge disappointment to you, but half the time I do not even bother to read who has posted something, because that is irrelevant to whether I agree with what is said or not; and nor do I form my opinions based on what particular people have said.

Oh, but I must correct one absolute fallacy on your part - where on earth did you get the impression that anything was about friendship? I do not know you from Adam, and we certainly are not, and never have been friends. This is simply another affectation based on misunderstanding - this is an anonymous internet forum and we are not friends, or anything else. I am just a poster. You are just a poster.

And for clarity, on this occasion, yes, I was addressing you personally.

[gravytrain]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

I don't think you have written anything here that constitute a breach of forum rules FM, but hey what do i know.
I do think think that much of Eloises eloquent piece was probably addressed to me rather than you(perhaps I was wrong). To be honest I hadn't read it until i saw you had it quoted in your reply, i felt i knew what it would contain and because of its length, frankly I couldn't be bothered, PC rhetoric mostly and always goes down well on here IMO'.(even if out of context)

As for the points you raised, all perfectly reasoned and accurate as far as I am concerned, sometimes the pack mentality takes over on these forums and the question or problem which is the point of the thread is lost, this is not really a huge concern when the issue is just one concerning money, but in this case it was the OPs life and happiness, I agree with you that we let him and ourselves down here.

[Inca]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

I gave the OP an insight in to what really happened...and I told him the possible outcome if he continues on his campaign of 'revenge'....Wife doesn't want him anymore,she is perfectly within her rights to seek a divorce,custody of her kids,and to live with the kids in the former marital home,,as much as he is LEGALLY entitled to fight her claims in court,,but no amount of nagging,force,flowers etc is going to make her suddenly fall at his feet begging for forgiveness of her errant ways.
My advice stays the same...seek legal advice and tread carefully..the children do not deserve to be mentally scarred for life by witnessing the 2 people they love most in all the world destroy each other.

[gravytrain]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

I gave the OP an insight in to what really happened...and I told him the possible outcome if he continues on his campaign of 'revenge'....Wife doesn't want him anymore,she is perfectly within her rights to seek a divorce,custody of her kids,and to live with the kids in the former marital home,,as much as he is LEGALLY entitled to fight her claims in court,,but no amount of nagging,force,flowers etc is going to make her suddenly fall at his feet begging for forgiveness of her errant ways.
My advice stays the same...seek legal advice and tread carefully..the children do not deserve to be mentally scarred for life by witnessing the 2 people they love most in all the world destroy each other.

This again is all very interesting and again I am sure it applies to your case. Not sure what it has to do with the OP though, the measures that you mention may or may not work in HIS case we will never know.
In this case however the OP was requesting more practical help with the legal aspects of his situation, and perhaps a little support.

[Inca]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

gravytrain,,,you would find flaws in anybodys postings,no matter what..unless it's your voice being heard from up high on your pedastal. I would never encourage any poster to start on a course of revengeful activity to try and force his wife to be where she doesn't want to be.If you don't like my style of posting..ignore me,,just like I ignore 99% of what you post.

[gravytrain]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

gravytrain,,,you would find flaws in anybodys postings,no matter what..unless it's your voice being heard from up high on your pedastal. I would never encourage any poster to start on a course of revengeful activity to try and force his wife to be where she doesn't want to be.If you don't like my style of posting..ignore me,,just like I ignore 99% of what you post.

It is a common tactic on here to attack the poster when you don't have an argument for the point they raise.
Trying to understand what you say, it seems that i am at fault for "finding flaws in arguments", and from doing it from my" high pedestal".

I think you will find the first of these to be "disagreement" sorry about that but I am as entitled to disagree as anyone else.
The second, "high pedestal" bit i am unsure about, if you mean that I take a high moral stance, then I should say, thank you, I suppose.

[gravytrain]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

ANY way I was only attracted back because i saw someone whose opinion I respect had posted here, and I was curious, they seem to have gone now so I will withdraw.

[jon1965]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

Oh good grief how old are we all ?

Miss FM if I read your posts correctly then please remember that what people write are opinions only and are no more valid in the great scheme of things than yours. If we disagree that is not personal. I have been on the receiving end of some very vicious attacks on various forums and am still standing

I happen to think that between the "outraged from Surbiton" type posts , the OP has been given some very good advice about what he can do, maybe should do and definitely shouldn't do. Hopefully it will have helped him rethink the best approach

Eloise, I have no doubt that in your field you excel however you do sometimes come across as being a bit like a school mistress and what you may call being honest I call opening your mouth without engaging your brain.

As for friends..well yes we can make friends on forums, I have (I hope) made two or three real friendships and quite a few acquaintances. There are people as well that I wouldn't, as the saying goes P on them if they were on fire. I am sure I fit into all those categories for different people

[gravytrain]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

Oh good grief how old are we You should never ask ask a lady how old she is

Miss FM if I read your posts correctly then please remember that what people write are opinions only and are no more valid in the great scheme of things than yours. If we disagree that is not personal. I have been on the receiving end of some very vicious attacks on various forums and am still standing

I think that this was one of the points she made, personally I am regarded as somewhat of a treasure and never encounter any abuse.

I happen to think that between the "outraged from Surbiton" type posts , the OP has been given some very good advice about what he can do, maybe should do and definitely shouldn't do. Hopefully it will have helped him rethink the best approach

Cant agree here apart from Bluebottle very little constructive advise.Posters on here, have said that they pride themselves on the fact that people can come on here with their problems without being judged(that is what MSE is for) didn't seem to happen here.

Eloise, I have no doubt that in your field you excel however you do sometimes come across as being a bit like a school mistress and what you may call being honest I call opening your mouth without engaging your brain. There you are, we can agree

As for friends..well yes we can make friends on forums, I have (I hope) made two or three real friendships and quite a few acquaintances. There are people as well that I wouldn't, as the saying goes P on them if they were on fire. I am sure I fit into all those categories for different people

Yes I too have a few friends on here, but they keep it quiet, for there own safety I suspect

[jon1965]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

Have you ever heard of equality, and at the risk of being thumped by PlanB and FP...Ladies?

[PlanB]

Re: What can I do under a Non-Molestation order?

Have you ever heard of equality, and at the risk of being thumped by PlanB and FP...Ladies?