Help with unfit mother

[chrissyg]

Hi, I will try and keep this a brief as possible.

My brother got full custody of his daughter via court the mother was given short supervised visitation which she chose not to do. This was 5+ yrs ago now the mother is back in contact and wants her to go live with her .The daughter is now 15 and torn between the dad and stepmum and the devils spawn.

My question is if the daughter decided the the prospect of no rules etc was a better option and said she did want to live with said devils spawn what are the implications ?

The "mother" and i use the term in the loosest sence possible has said come live with me and your dad will have to pay money for your keep.

[Crazy council]

Re: Help with unfit mother

I feel for you, had some similar circumstances, and it can be a loose loose situation even when you act correctly

Was the original order a court order, if so, then shes still subject to till 18 i think ( ie dont let the social services fob you off and say shes old enough to choose )

Have you got the social service involved yet, would affect her schooling ( 15 is a crucial )

[chrissyg]

Re: Help with unfit mother

It was a court order the judge was scathing about the "mum"
Social services aren't involved , the dad [my brother] has provided a good stable home . All of this kicked off when the "mum" heard he had gotten engaged up until that point there had been nothing for almost 5 years.

She is in her last year at school and did have plans to go to college but staying at home claiming benefits like her mum seems to be a more attractive option for her !

If the worst happened and she went to live with her as he has a court order could he insist she lives at home ?

[Crazy council]

Re: Help with unfit mother

hi

If the worst happened and she went to live with her as he has a court order could he insist she lives at home ?

thats why i was asking. its probebly worth asking the social services for advice on this, because she is part of a court order, there age cut off is 18. and involving them may delay things long enough for her to at least get through her exams ..

[Openlaw15]

Re: Help with unfit mother

Hi, I will try and keep this a brief as possible.

My brother got full custody of his daughter via court the mother was given short supervised visitation which she chose not to do. This was 5+ yrs ago now the mother is back in contact and wants her to go live with her .The daughter is now 15 and torn between the dad and stepmum and the devils spawn.

My question is if the daughter decided the the prospect of no rules etc was a better option and said she did want to live with said devils spawn what are the implications ?

The "mother" and i use the term in the loosest sence possible has said come live with me and your dad will have to pay money for your keep.

Well how about we talk about why the mother is unfit as mothers have rights to be with their own children. So, why social services need to be involved.

[Kati]

Re: Help with unfit mother

Well how about we talk about why the mother is unfit as mothers have rights to be with their own children. So, why social services need to be involved.

If the courts found the mother unfit and gave custody to the father, then there has to be some issues already. She was awarded visitation (but didn't bother to take the opportunity to see her daughter) and has only just started saying she wants the child to live with her after 5yrs of nothing ... seems pretty clear-cut (IMO) that there would have to be a certain level of SS involvement at least to begin with (checks would need to be carried out etc...).

@chrissyg ... would your brother be willing to contact SS to ask for their advice?? It would look better in the long run if he was seen to be doing everything he could to support his daughter in this :nod: xx

[Crazy council]

Re: Help with unfit mother

Well how about we talk about why the mother is unfit as mothers have rights to be with their own children. So, why social services need to be involved.

because she is subject to a court order, by a judge, that had some restrictions on. Social services is the right way to turn for this i think

[Openlaw15]

Re: Help with unfit mother

because she is subject to a court order, by a judge, that had some restrictions on. Social services is the right way to turn for this i think

A court order does not mean the person is 'unfit'...the mother has supervised visits. The test is does the mother pose harm to the 15 year old and is that harm significant. The judge may have been scathing but that does not mean there has been harm caused or that harm was significant.

[Noah]

Re: Help with unfit mother

Please don't take this the wrong way
Any child of 15 can be at best contrary and if the language used around her is in any way similar to the sentiments expressed here it could push her into the arms of her mother . It can take a lot to turn a child against a parent and she may just turn against those that she perceives to be demonising her mother.

Now for practicalities
She needs to be made aware that leaving school at 16 and joining the ranks of the unemployed is not an option https://www.gov.uk/know-when-you-can-leave-school ( I am assuming that her mother is living in England)
If there is a court order any variation will need the permission of the court and whilst they take the wishes of the child into consideration , their overriding reasons will be what is in the best interest of the child . I can not see it going from a residency order with supervised access to residency with the other parent .

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A court order does not mean the person is 'unfit'...the mother has supervised visits. The test is does the mother pose harm to the 15 year old and is that harm significant. The judge may have been scathing but that does not mean there has been harm caused or that harm was significant.

I would imagine that the mere facts that the visits are supervised suggest some problems. If the visits are supervised then Social services will have an open case on her

[Openlaw15]

Re: Help with unfit mother

Please don't take this the wrong way
Any child of 15 can be at best contrary and if the language used around her is in any way similar to the sentiments expressed here it could push her into the arms of her mother . It can take a lot to turn a child against a parent and she may just turn against those that she perceives to be demonising her mother.

Now for practicalities
She needs to be made aware that leaving school at 16 and joining the ranks of the unemployed is not an option https://www.gov.uk/know-when-you-can-leave-school ( I am assuming that her mother is living in England)
If there is a court order any variation will need the permission of the court and whilst they take the wishes of the child into consideration , their overriding reasons will be what is in the best interest of the child . I can not see it going from a residency order with supervised access to residency with the other parent .

- - - Updated - - -



I would imagine that the mere facts that the visits are supervised suggest some problems. If the visits are supervised then Social services will have an open case on her

This is why we have family law, speculating on why there has been supervision orders is not helpful until we're aware of the facts. The best way in my view is to be objective as, with respect to the op she uses the words 'devils spawn' and is brother of the one who seemingly does not want the mother in the young person's life, owing to 5 year absence. People make mistakes, they grown up and learn from them. I helped a US woman friend who was accused of abusing her children just because her ex manipulated the system. He was trying to get protection orders in two different states, Minnesota and Iowa.

[chrissyg]

Re: Help with unfit mother

When it all kicked off around 6 yrs ago the child and her half brother were going to school dirty and hungry or not going at all for long periods, At that point when it all came to light social services were involved and they did a full report this report recommended supervised visitation and custody 100% with the dad.
The mother had and from what i see on social media still has a significant alcohol problem ,she did have a drug problem then also.

[Noah]

Re: Help with unfit mother

Of course people change, many make mistakes and then pull themselves together.

My points were
1) Try not to use such emotive language infant of the young lady concerned as it will almost certainly be counterproductive

2) There will have been a reason for supervised access , of course if that is still relevant is up for the court to decide

3) If in England the going straight onto benefits will not be an option

[chrissyg]

Re: Help with unfit mother

I need to clarify the words i use are mine nothing is said in front of the child , i live in another county and see her at most once a year.
The mother although had supervised visits only saw the child once after it was set up and has had no contact [her choice] for the past 5 yrs , the child hasn't had a birthday/christmas card even .

[Noah]

Re: Help with unfit mother

Thanks for not taking it as an attack, it wasn't intended that way at all

[Crazy council]

Re: Help with unfit mother

[MENTION=78371]chrissyg[/MENTION]

honestly, fully understand your position, getting social services involved puts the responsibility on them, to check the suitability. and meens that your not the one being blamed if they say no, and they take responsibility if they say yes and things go wrong, they take the blame.