Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

[Carl Philip]

Hello,
I understand that so-called 'baby hatches' don't exist in the U.K. because they're against the law. However, in several EU countries the practice exists. E.g. in Germany several 'baby hatches' exist legally as I understand that there is a loophole in the law that allows for this practice. My question is as follows: If a pregnant English national travels to Germany, gives birth there to a child and subsequently abandons the child in a baby hatch, can she be prosecuted in the U.K. (although what she did was legal in Germany)?
Many thanks,
C.P.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

Well if she can't, she bloody well should be.
And anyone who condones or encourages this malpractice, should also be prosecuted.
Just what do people think babies are?
Having a surrogate mother is one thing, but to abandon the baby to God knows who, is morally wrong.
If we haven't got a law here that protects the baby, then we should get one ASAP.

[Carl Philip]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

Thank you for your response, but I'm not so much interested in the moral implications of it as in the legal ones. Could anybody advice what the implications would be within U.K. law?

[des8]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

I'm sorry I can't answer your query.

BUT Jb (and you knew it would be me :tinysmile_twink_t2 there are other opinions.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/h...vival.16826856

[Johnboy007]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

Hello,
I understand that so-called 'baby hatches' don't exist in the U.K. because they're against the law. However, in several EU countries the practice exists. E.g. in Germany several 'baby hatches' exist legally as I understand that there is a loophole in the law that allows for this practice. My question is as follows: If a pregnant English national travels to Germany, gives birth there to a child and subsequently abandons the child in a baby hatch, can she be prosecuted in the U.K. (although what she did was legal in Germany)?
Many thanks,
C.P.

Hi,
Could I ask you if this concerns you as a potential father, or maybe you are looking to adopt a child in Germany?
It's just a strange question for a man to ask.
You can always send me a private message if it is too personal for the forum

[Johnboy007]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

I'm sorry I can't answer your query.

BUT Jb (and you knew it would be me :tinysmile_twink_t2 there are other opinions.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/h...vival.16826856

Knew you would have a say on this very delicate subject, Des mate.
It appears that between 50 and 60 babies are abandoned in the UK each year.
As I said Des, I have nothing against surrogacy, or even fostering, but to abandon a child........ Come on mate

[Kati]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

In the United Kingdom there are no baby hatches, as they are illegal: under section 27 of the Offences against the Person Act 1861 the law states that any mother who abandons a child less than two years of age is a criminal and can face up to five years' imprisonment.
In practice, such prosecutions are extremely rare and would only occur if the circumstances of child abandonment showed actual malice, i.e. appeared deliberately intended to result in the death of the child. A mother who wishes to have her newborn baby adopted can do so. Counselling is designed to ensure that giving up the baby is her genuine, irrevocable wish.

In Germany, the baby hatch system only just borders on the legal; normally a mother who abandons her child is committing a criminal act. However, according to the German social laws, parents are allowed to leave their child in the charge of a third party for up to eight weeks, for example if the parents need to go into hospital. After eight weeks, however, the youth welfare office must be called in.
German law considers babies left in the baby hatch as if they have been left in the charge of a third party. This loophole is extremely controversial as there have been some cases in Germany where the baby hatches have been used to abandon disabled children or babies already three months old. Several attempts have been made to clear up the legal basis for baby hatches and how to treat the children left in them, but as yet the situation is still not clearly regulated.

In the Czech Republic, the Ministry of Social Affairs confirmed in 2006 that baby hatches are legal under Czech law. In contradiction to this, in March 2006, Colonel Anna Piskova, a police officer, said on Czech television that the police would look for the mothers of abandoned children. The head of the Czech baby hatch organization Statim, Ludvik Hess, complained about this statement and was officially supported by the Save the Children Foundation. As of September 2013, there are 57 baby hatches in the country, mostly in major cities. So far, they have helped to save 92 children.

In Austria, the law treats babies found in baby hatches as foundlings. The local social services office for children and young people (Jugendwohlfahrt) takes care of the child for the first six months and then it is given up for adoption. Women have had the right to give birth anonymously since 2001.

The United Nations has questioned the legality of baby boxes, criticizing the high number of children's group homes and claiming the boxes violate children's rights.

[Celestine]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

In serious cases, such as travelling abroad to commit sexual offences etc this is punishable in the UK courts.

My gut feeling is that an offence such as this would not progress in the British legal criminal system as there would probably be low interest from the UK police.

I doubt this particular circumstance has ever occurred before so I suspect there is not going to be a definitive answer to your question, there are so many conflicting issues such as the mothers psychological welfare, the childs' welfare and future that I can't see how any criminal action would assist in resolution.

If you look at the many cases of child abandonment, or even infanticide of a newborn, it is rare to see criminal proceedings as the mother is often classified as in need of help rather than punishment.

[Kati]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

I have nothing against surrogacy, or even fostering, but to abandon a child........ Come on mate

My feelings on this exactly Jb ... I know it does happen, but I cannot understand HOW a mother can abandon the child she has carried for 9 months

[Johnboy007]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

I'm sorry I can't answer your query.

BUT Jb (and you knew it would be me :tinysmile_twink_t2 there are other opinions.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/h...vival.16826856

Knew you would have a say on this very delicate subject, Des mate.
It appears that between 50 and 60 babies are abandoned in the UK each year.
In Germany, babies are first looked after for eight weeks during which the mother can return and claim her child without any legal repercussions. If this does not happen, after eight weeks the child is put up for adoption.
I managed to find this out, which may give Carl some sort of answer.
In the United Kingdom there are no baby hatches, as they are illegal: under section 27 of the Offences against the Person Act 1861 the law states that any mother who abandons a child less than two years of age is a criminal and can face up to five years' imprisonment. In practice, such prosecutions are extremely rare and would only occur if the circumstances of child abandonment showed actual malice, i.e. appeared deliberately intended to result in the death of the child. A mother who wishes to have her newborn baby adopted can do so. Counseling is designed to ensure that giving up the baby is her genuine, irrevocable wish.

[Carl Philip]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

Hi JB,

I had thought about providing some more background as to why I'm asking this question but was a little anxious I wouldn't be taken seriously. But since you explicitly ask: I'm a writer of fiction and one of my characters is in the position as described earlier. Ideally, she would be prosecuted by UK law (in order for the plot to work) so I'm hoping for a response from someone that confirms this.
As for the moral implications of all this: I agree with you that abandoning a baby is morally wrong. But who are we, especially as males, to judge a woman who is so desperate she sees no other solution. As the article posted by Des points out, there are enough situations that would drive even the strongest souls among us to utter despair.
Cheers,
C.P.

[Amethyst]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

Desperation, lack of support, pressure, fear, hope .......... all manner of reasons. The woman may have been the victim of abuse, rape, prostitution. It happens, in secret, and better in safety.

[Amethyst]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

Hi JB,

I had thought about providing some more background as to why I'm asking this question but was a little anxious I wouldn't be taken seriously. But since you explicitly ask: I'm a writer of fiction and one of my characters is in the position as described earlier. Ideally, she would be prosecuted by UK law (in order for the plot to work) so I'm hoping for a response from someone that confirms this.
As for the moral implications of all this: I agree with you that abandoning a baby is morally wrong. But who are we, especially as males, to judge a woman who is so desperate she sees no other solution. As the article posted by Des points out, there are enough situations that would drive even the strongest souls among us to utter despair.
Cheers,
C.P.

The mother could only be prosecuted if the pregnancy was known about (ie the hatch is a secret so it would never be known who dropped off the baby unless she chose to return or identify herself) so the plot falls down I think, unless you add a confidant in The father would have rights too if he is known/aware.

I think possibly think about things like Dignitas and how people who assist with airfairs/travel arrangements can be prosecuted for helping UK nationals to attend.

[Carl Philip]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

Hi again JB,
Thanks for the info and the effort! I had come across similar information but in my scenario the question is whether she is breaking U.K. law if her action happens abroad (e.g. in Germany).
Thanks again,
C.P.

[des8]

Re: Abandoning a newborn in a 'baby hatch' as a foundling

It would seem that it is only in cases of murder and manslaughter that uk courts have extra territorial jurisdiction over criminal acts committed abroad by UK citizens