Forced Change Of Hours.

[Usinnit]

Hi guys,


About 5 weeks ago employees at the company I work for were given notice of a proposed change of hours with slight variations across departments, with the proposed new hours starting on the 5th of June.


The notice we were given had the option for a one to one with your manager to discuss any reasons you were not able to do the proposed split shift change.


I finally had my one to one 4 weeks later and was told I could go part time, or he'd look to see if there were other positions within the company with hours to suit. I had a second consultation yesterday with a different manager who said I shouldn't have been offered part time and it's my responsibility to apply for jobs that have been advertised internally, not my managers. It's the rotating shifts or nothing.


Apparentley child care isn't a viable excuse to not do the split shifts. (I take my son to kickboxing/ju-jitsu on an evening whilst my wife and daughter are out at there classes).


I've been on permanent 11-7 shift for many years and they're wanting me to now start doing rotating shifts of 7-3/3-11 weekly.


I'm sure my contract only states the amount of hours I do, not which ones I do.


Because they've messed about doing the consultations so late, I've now only 1 week before the changes start and they're saying I'll have to hand my notice in if I can't do the shifts.


I've read a bit about customs and practice, but don't really understand it. Is this something I can use because I've done the same hours for so long, my hours are implied?


Or do I have to bite the bullet and quit like my manager says I have to do? (If I quit my job I'm not entitled to any financial help like job seekers allowance for a period of time)


Thanks for any help.

[mariefab]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

No, you absolutely do not have to quit!
That suggestion was just your employer's way of getting you to let them off the hook.

You have notice that the new hours will commence on 5th June.
So, there are 2 options.

1. You start working the new hours from 5th June.
2. You refuse to work the new hours and your employer informs you that you are therefore dismissed. At which point you take your chances on whether you'll be entitled to benefits, in these circumstances, and/or claim unfair dismissal if you can show that there were jobs available at suitable hours or that refusing part-time hours was unreasonable.

[Usinnit]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

No, you absolutely do not have to quit!
That suggestion was just your employer's way of getting you to let them off the hook.

You have notice that the new hours will commence on 5th June.
So, there are 2 options.

1. You start working the new hours from 5th June.
2. You refuse to work the new hours and your employer informs you that you are therefore dismissed. At which point you take your chances on whether you'll be entitled to benefits, in these circumstances, and/or claim unfair dismissal if you can show that there were jobs available at suitable hours or that refusing part-time hours was unreasonable.

She actually said that they wouldn't dismiss us as it would be our choice to leave, not theirs.
I was hoping for the 12 weeks notice if it came to it as I've been there over 14 years now.

So I refuse to do those hours, then on the 5th turn up at my normal start time, or will they say don't bother coming in?

So stressed out over this, and the managers are complete arse clowns.

[mariefab]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

If you've decided not to do the alternate shifts, you will still be due 6 weeks notice on the 5th.

I wouldn't just pitch up at 11 on the 5th because it will be half way through the new day shift.
It would be better to tell them, preferably in writing, soonest that:
The new shift system is not for you because of child care commitments.
You are not resigning.
You are happy to continue to work your contractual hours of 11-3,
They are dismissing you because you can't/won't agree to the change that they've instituted to alternating 7-3/3-11 shifts.
You still hope that (in the last week) another suitable full or part time role can be found (by you or them).
Otherwise, if they are dismissing you, you are still due 6 weeks further notice and do they want you to work this (at your normal hours) or would they prefer to pay you in lieu.


'I've read a bit about customs and practice, but don't really understand it. Is this something I can use because I've done the same hours for so long, my hours are implied?'

How long is 'so long'?
If you've been working 11-3 for the last few years, these are your contracted hours. A contract of employment isn't just words on a page it's what actually happens (custom and practice).
Your employer already knows this. Otherwise they would not have given any notice or consultation; they'd have just told everyone to start doing rotating shifts the next week.

[Usinnit]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

I'd say we've worked 11am-7pm for around 5 years now, maybe longer.

Also I've been with the company for 14 years, would they not have to give me 12 weeks notice of dismissal?

I'm going to have a go at writing a letter, would you be able to have a look at it, if I post it up?

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the Duty Manager actually said to everyone "don't worry, nobody is losing their jobs" before he handed out the sheets with the proposed shift change.

Thanks, I really appreciate your advice.

[Usinnit]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

I've written a quick draft.

What changes/addition would you recommend?

EDIT: Made changes to draft.

RE: Shift Change Proposal

To whom it may concern,


I am regretfully writing to inform you that I am unable to comply with the new split shift changes of 7am-3pm/3pm-11pm due to personal family commitments and child care issues in the evenings.

I am happy to continue to work my contractual hours of 11am-7pm or even the hours of 7am-3pm that is stated as one of the new shifts.

I still hope that during these final few days', another suitable position/role can be found within the company.

If another position with suitable hours cannot be found and I am to be dismissed, could I please be notified at the earliest opportunity whether I am to work my notice period at my normal contractual hours or if I'm to be paid in lieu.

Best Regards,

[mariefab]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

You were right to amend by removing the reference to 6 weeks notice.
Unless they documented that the consultation period would form part of the notice of dismissal for anyone unable to comply with the new shift pattern they would need to give you 12 weeks notice.
Perhaps you know someone effected who usually drops their kids to school or would prefer the night shift for any other reason. If not, you could ask around during this last week.

Suggested amendments:

I am regretfully writing to inform you that I am unable to comply with the proposed new split shift pattern of 7am-3pm/3pm-11pm due to personal family commitments and child care issues in the evenings.

I am happy to continue to work my contractual hours of 11am-7pm.
Or, to work the hours of 7am-3pm, that is stated as one of the new shifts, every week. (Perhaps it would suit someone else to work a permanent 3pm-11pm shift.
Or, any other suitable role that can be found within the Company.)

If another suitable position cannot be found and I am to be dismissed, could I please be notified at the earliest opportunity whether I am to work my notice period at my normal contractual hours, 7-3, or if I'm to be paid in lieu.

[Usinnit]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

Thanks again

A friend has taken pictures of the sheet we received and sent them to me.

This sheet is the only thing I've been given, and there's no mention of notice of dismissal at all.

Front:


Reverse:


The company was taken over mid October 2016 and according to Citizens Advice "special rules apply" when a new employer wants to make changes to your contract. Would this apply to my circumstances?


Also, If someone has already handed their notice in and left the business because they were told they'd have to quit, would that constitute constructive dismissal?

I can't say thank you enough for your help.

[mariefab]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

What exactly do the flexibility clauses in your contract of employment say?

When the Company was 'taken over' was TUPE mentioned at all?

An employer telling someone to quit could be constructive dismissal.

[Usinnit]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

What exactly do the flexibility clauses in your contract of employment say?

When the Company was 'taken over' was TUPE mentioned at all?

An employer telling someone to quit could be constructive dismissal.

I can't find my employee booklet so trying to source another. (If I request one from work, will it have to be the same as when I signed it? And not one that's been amended since for newer employees?)

I don't ever remember TUPE being mentioned, just that the acquisition had been completed. (shop floor workers don't get told anything).

[Usinnit]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

These from the employee handbook.

[mariefab]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

Having 'the right to amend the contents of this handbook' means just that.
It doesn't give your employer the right to unilaterally permanently change the terms of your employment.

The 'Working hours' clause just gives them the right to require you to do overtime, or to make a temporary change to your working hours in order to meet a business need, after which you would revert back to your normal working hours.

Your contract of employment would have been issued to you around the time that you started working there. It might have another name e.g. Statement of particulars, Terms of employment, Offer of employment etc.
It will show the terms in existence at that time and unless any of these have been changed by agreement those original terms still apply.
A way to identify it is that one of it's first clauses will include the date that you started working there.

[Usinnit]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

Thanks. I'll ask for a copy tomorrow.

[Usinnit]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

Apologies for the late reply. I've only just received the copy of my contract.


I've also had a look at another employee's contract who's basically in the same boat. He joined on 2009 but is only part time. His contract doesn't mention amended hours.

[Usinnit]

Re: Forced Change Of Hours.

Bit of an update, basically getting messed about.

On the 2nd of June I was told to stay on my normal hours for 2 weeks and I will have an answer at the end of the 2 weeks. I was to be in a meeting on the 16th with the duty manager and/or HR.

Instead I was taken in to the office by my manager on the 16th June and told that things haven't been sorted yet and I'm to stay on my normal hours for another 2 weeks. Apparently they're looking in to the legalities of the situation, which I'm dubious about because the company has it's own solicitors and I'd be surprised if they haven't looked in to it beforehand. They're short staffed at the minute due to a lot of people leaving because of the hour changes and the way they've been treated, so I reckon they're only keeping me on until they have sufficient cover in place.

Oh, and it turns out that they have given some people hours that suited them and made a few new shifts up for others. One guy in my department has been signed off for the late shift 3-11pm permanently, yet they still didn't offer me the 7-3pm shift.

If by the end of the next 2 weeks it's still not sorted, can I request that it's done by a certain date? It's actually making me feel badly going through all this and not knowing what's happening. I've been getting short of breath and having chest pains too.