accused of putting health and safety at risk

[Natalie1]

I work in a hotel as a reception manager and left a shift without an advanced first aider on the premises. All the staff I left on premises had been first aid trained to the level required by law but none had done the advanced level.

My employer is holding a disciplinary hearing accusingme of putting guest health & safety at risk because there was no advanced first aider on premises, which meant the other staff would not have that extra advanced knowledge in an emergency. I understand we have a duty of care and that first aid can help save lives, which is why I made sure all the staff on premises were first aid trained, but can the lack of that extra advanced knowledge actually be seen as putting health & safety at risk? Surely any risk to health & safety would come from an emergency itself and your first aid training would just be a tool to minimise the impact of that emergency.

There is no rule at work that says there must be an advanced first aider on premises, but the law has minimum requirements which I did meet when I left the premises with basic first aiders. As far as I know there is no law that states you have to give first aid treatment, so even if staff had the advanced level of first aid training it doesn't mean they are going to use it, which kind of negates my employer's argument. No emergencies occurred during the shift so how can they even prove health & safety was put at risk? Is them saying it was put at risk enough to prove it was? How can I best defend against this very serious accusation? I thought employers only had to provide first aiders for staff, not for people using their business, but I am not sure if hotels have a different regulation.

[mariefab]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

Has your employer formally appointed you as the person in charge of first-aid arrangements?

[Natalie1]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

No. Im not sure who that falls to except the employer.

The person who should have been on premises after me was an advanced first aider but they just didn't turn up for work and because we don't always have an advanced first aider on premises and because there is no rule that says we must, I didn't phone a different one to come in. I left the premises with just basic first aiders.

I didn't break the law because everyone had the legal required training, so the hotel was still operating within the law. I didn't break health & safety policy and I didn't break any rules from my employer. They still accuse me of causing a risk to health & safety. The only evidence they have supplied is the notes from the investigation meeting where I admit to not phoning for anther advanced first aider. I feel they are making this into something much bigger than it was.

[mariefab]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

Hopefully judgemental will see this thread because he's the expert in these matters.

To start with, see below for the relevant legislation and guidance.

https://www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly...idance2013.pdf

The responsibility rests with the employer.
It seems to me that the only way that they could legitimately discipline you for this would be if ensuring that an advanced first-aider was on the premises at all times was a responsibility that they had specifically delegated solely to you.

[Amethyst]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

Could it have something to do with the hotel's licence ?

eg

(this is Wigan's licencing guidance)

First Aid
PS3 There shall be maintained on the premises at all times an adequate and
appropriate supply of first aid equipment and materials.
PS4 At all times when the public are present, at least one person who holds a
current recognised first aid certificate or award shall be present on the
premises. Where more than one such person is present, their duties shall be
clearly defined.
PS5 The premises licence holder shall develop and operate a procedure for
dealing with unwell members of the public including those who appear to be
affected by alcohol and drugs. Staff will be appropriately trained in such
procedures

It is the licence holders responsibility and, as Mariefab said, if you were never made aware that it was part of your job to ensure an advanced first aider should be on the premises then I don't really see how you can be disciplined for it.

[ostell]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

It would seen that the person that should be disciplined is the person that didn't turn up.

[Natalie1]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

If its to do with a legalities, all the staff have recognised first aid certificates and have appropriate training. Some staff have advanced training but are not always on premises. If advanced first aiders is what is needed then wouldn't they have to be on premises all the time and wouldn't all staff have to be advanced trained?

I cant work out how not having the advanced training puts health & safety at risk as surely a guest would already be at risk due to whatever emergency had happened and your training is there to stop the emergency getting worse if possible until an ambulance arrives if it that serious.

[mariefab]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

Are you responsible for overseeing all the staff rotas?

[Natalie1]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

No. The employer does the rotas. If staff don't turn up for work we can decided to get cover or not. There's nothing to say the cover has to have certain training. I only found out the person who should have been on premises after me was an advanced first aider when I was investigated and they told me. The people who have done the advanced training know they have done this training but no one else does.

[mariefab]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

How long have you worked for this employer?

[Natalie1]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

Just over a year.

They haven't told me what the actual risk to health & safety was, only that there was one. Where could the risk be? Once I know that I will have a better chance to defend this.

I understand that knowing advanced first aid could help decrease the risk to health & safety caused by an emergency. But not knowing advanced first aid doesn’t increase the risk to health & safety, the risk is already there and doesn’t increase because of something you don’t know. If you don't know how to administer advanced first aid, the risk stays the same. If you chose not to administer advanced first aid, because there is no legal requirement for you to do so, the risk would stay the same.

Its as if my employer is saying that not having the advanced knowledge means you are less able to decrease a risk caused by an emergency which is itself a risk to health & safety. But causing a risk and not knowing how to decrease a risk are two different things and they are accusing me of causing a risk.

[mariefab]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

Unfortunately, because you have less than 2 years service they could dismiss you without having to give any reason at all. Although it woundn't be morally fair, it would be 'fair' in law.

Therefore, even though they are completely wrong to accuse you of and hold you responsible for the alleged first aid issue you need to play this very carefully.
In the circumstances it may be best to appear to accept your employer's premise.

You could say that before the investigation you hadn't been informed that there was a workplace policy that an advanced trained first-aider always had to be present, (that your advanced training certainly didn't indicate that this was the case) and that even if you had known you would not have known who was and who was not advanced trained.
You could suggest that a list of advanced trained first-aid staff could be created, and drawn to everyone's attention, so that staff could refer to this in the future. You could also suggest that the list could include the name and number of the manager to be contacted in the event that no advanced trained member of staff was available. These helpful suggestions would probably avoid this situation happening again.

[Natalie1]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

Thank you for the suggestion those are valid points and I will certainly mention them but I will only accept their premise if they can show me how not having the advanced training puts guest health & safety at risk. That's the reason I came on here to find out the answer to that question. I have googled this but that only tells me the definition of risk such as putting people in danger. Lack of advanced first aid knowledge doesn't put people in danger, the danger comes from whatever incident occurs. For your first aid skills to be required, a risk or danger must already exist. Lack of advanced knowledge means you may have to deal with the incident in a different way. If I could get my head around how lack of advanced first aid knowledge actually causes a risk then maybe I can understand and accept their premise.

[mariefab]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

I'm afraid you'll never be able to get your head around their contention that the lack of advanced first aid knowledge causes a risk because it's obviously nonsense, just like the rest of their claims.

[stevemLS]

Re: accused of putting health and safety at risk

Is it a bit like saying a hospital without doctors puts patients at risk?

I'm not nearly as certain. If the hotel have as part of their risk assessment, determined that it is necessary to have an advanced first aider present at all times, they are free to do so. Just as they are free to say they want a fireman on the premises at all time, or whatever.