Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

Who do I think I am? I suppose if we were in a pub you'd call me out.

Please read my posts - at no point did I say the discussion wasn't relevant - I don't think the petition link is appropriate.

I don't tend to have physical fights.

It's up to Kate, Sharon, Nick and Kati to decide whether the petition link stays or not, not us.

[matt3942]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

Agreed.

[PAWS]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

Zero hours contracts are, to my scrambled little mind, a very relevant subject for this forum. Personally I think they are a disgraceful abuse of people who are desperately seeking a bit of security and continuity in their lives. Some people cannot even commit to interviews for, dare I say, proper jobs, because they have to stand and wait to see if the well-manicured finger of faith will point and give them a decent days work –just like the poor men had to do at the dockyard gates during the depression.
Vote or don’t vote depending on your views but denying anyone the opportunity to view their opinions or indeed turning their threads into a bear pit is a fond nod to total censorship and a step back in history to the bad old days of the thirties in Europe.

- - - Updated - - -

Bo***cks, in my heated arguing forgot to add my name to the petition. Doing it now!

[matt3942]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

It seems to me that everyone else is turning this discussion into a 'bear pit' - I didn't say people couldn't share their views; I welcomed an objective discussion.

As we've already discussed, zero-hour contracts are appropriate in many situations - 60% of workers on zero-hour contracts are happy with the arrangement - and an outright ban would likely have an adverse affect on those workers, which hardly seems fair.

Instead, we need to find a way to stop employers using zero-hour contracts unnecessarily, e.g. when a fixed-term/part-time contract could be used.

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

The fact that we are discussing this subject speaks volumes.

I wouldn't necessarily outlaw zero hour contracts completely. However, I would make the following changes:

1. Employees allowed to turn down work at any time without any reason.

2. Compensation for being on call - even at home but employees no duty to agree to being on call at any time.

3. Both parties able to terminate the contract at any time, reflecting the true spirit of employment at will.

4. Employees entitled to get a proper contract after six month's service.

[mystery1]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

1. Employees allowed to turn down work at any time without any reason.

That is how they work already although some employers give you less work as punishment if you do so.

2. Compensation for being on call - even at home but employees no duty to agree to being on call at any time.

Zero hour on call ? Never heard of it. Being available yes but see the answer above. It's a 2 way street the flexibility.

3. Both parties able to terminate the contract at any time, reflecting the true spirit of employment at will.

This is how it works now as neither has any right to demand hours of the other.

4. Employees entitled to get a proper contract after six month's service.

In some cases yes but surely not if it's a genuine flexible contract that works for both and has no set hours ?

M1

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

2. I have heard demands on people being available for work on zero hour contracts, effectively preventing them from working elsewhere.

3. This point is unclear. It's not uncommon for your contract to require four weeks notice or so. Not sure what happens if you simply turn down work, don't answer your phone etc? It's also not unheard of your zero hour contract demanding your being available for work as and when required.

[mystery1]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

2. I have heard demands on people being available for work on zero hour contracts, effectively preventing them from working elsewhere.

There are many bad employers hence the explosion and exploitation that has taken place. If you can work for more than 1 employer why would you show more loyalty to one who plays dirty tricks ?

3. This point is unclear. It's not uncommon for your contract to require four weeks notice or so. Not sure what happens if you simply turn down work, don't answer your phone etc? It's also not unheard of your zero hour contract demanding your being available for work as and when required.

4 weeks notice for what ? To say you're not available for work ? I suspect you mean paid holidays.

M1

[matt3942]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

There is no mutuality of obligation between an employer and a worker on a zero-hour contract, i.e. the employer is not obliged to offer work, and the worker is not obliged to accept an offer of work.

As such the worker is essentially always on standby.

AFAIK there is no statutory notice period to terminate a zero-hours contract, so both parties are able to terminate the contract at any time; however, even if the contract does state a minimum notice period, the worker is not required to undertake any work during the notice period.

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

I have heard cases where employees are demanded to be available for work or to give notice of four weeks to terminate their zero hour contract.

This is interesting in a sense that those demands will probably be unenforceable.

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

Please see the last paragraph.

http://www.youretheboss.org.uk/paid-...ours-contracts

My advice remains - in most cases better off on the social and I for one would choose that. Sorry, IDS...

[mystery1]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

I have heard cases where employees are demanded to be available for work or to give notice of four weeks to terminate their zero hour contract.

This is interesting in a sense that those demands will probably be unenforceable.

The employer is risking an ET finding that it is not a genuine zero hour contract and the worker has fuller employment rights which can be costly.

M1

[enaid]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

Well a zero hour contract may very well be welcomed by say a student or maybe an out of work budding actor waiting for their big break, or even a mum/carer with more important obligations and doesn't need work to survive, then yes all well and good.
To me personally having to try and survive and live a life under the stress of not knowing how much will go in the pot from week to week is unimaginable.
The people who are trying to survive and keep a roof over their heads and feed and clothe their family are having their lack of earnings topped up from the welfare system, the very system the government wants to make big cuts to and probably abolish in the end.
These contracts are not just being used by small businesses they are being used and abused imho by big companies to boost profits and have a work force with virtually no rights.
So in a nutshell and in my tin pot way, we the tax payer are helping companies prosper and use and abuse people who want to work for their living, keep a roof over their heads and care for their kids and also have pride in doing so.
So I don't think banning is totally the right answer but a lot more regulation and fairer rights for the employee could be welcome.

PS these jobs are probably helping prop up the 2 million jobs created by the clone clowns that is mentioned in every speech their leader makes, never a mention on how many jobs has been lost while they in the driving seat

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

It's amazing how much crap many people take in this country. Zero hour contracts are no exception.

I for one do not believe that 60% of people on them are happy. I require some evidence of that!

The government would no doubt say something like "we have seen no evidence of zero hour contracts being exploitative..."

Is it really too much to ask that everyone is entitled to know how they are going to pay their housing, food, clothing and other necessary living expenses?

I could never see the French or the Germans putting up with this kind of crap.

The answer? Unless you are looking to earn some extra cash as a student, home maker or a retired person just say no to zero hour contracts!

[matt3942]

Re: Outlaw zero hours petition is live now

Here is the link to the CIPD survey: http://www.cipd.co.uk/binaries/zero-...th-reality.pdf

According to the survey zero-hour contract workers are more satisfied with their job, and their work-life balance.

To answer your question: no, it isn't too much to ask, but you've summed up the counterargument nicely: if you're not prepared to work under a zero-hour contract, just say no!